Super Rugby 2023
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Ok, I trust Gregor Paul's opinion less than my own.
So much poor analysis and narrow measures to create a 'story'.
I totally agree that investment needs to show results or benefits but these can come in many more forms than he describes.
He declares "no tangible legacy benefits for the community game". Has he checked how much money has gone into renewing and refreshing club grounds and clubhouses? Infrastructure that, if left alone, would have rotted the game alongside itself?
Halting decline is as valuable as increasing participation at the moment. Any increase is probably worth double.
Then he goes on the criticise impact from the WRWC on numbers when the season has barely started plus that bounce back from declining numbers is huge. -
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
He declares "no tangible legacy benefits for the community game". Has he checked how much money has gone into renewing and refreshing club grounds and clubhouses? Infrastructure that, if left alone, would have rotted the game alongside itself?
i see first hand what a difference that infrastructure has in keeping interest in the game, my clubs clubrooms are over a km away from where we play, we get a tent up for the bbq and that it....is see the crowds the other clubs get that have proper facilities and i understand why we struggle for numbers, hard to quantify but hugely important
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
He declares "no tangible legacy benefits for the community game". Has he checked how much money has gone into renewing and refreshing club grounds and clubhouses? Infrastructure that, if left alone, would have rotted the game alongside itself?
i see first hand what a difference that infrastructure has in keeping interest in the game, my clubs clubrooms are over a km away from where we play, we get a tent up for the bbq and that it....is see the crowds the other clubs get that have proper facilities and i understand why we struggle for numbers, hard to quantify but hugely important
Some clubs have managed to add that money into, not only facility redevelopment, but the pitches as well. Surely better grounds make for better rugby and prepare better pathways?
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The whole women's rugby section was weird too. The numbers are going because of the WRWC, but not really because they went down because of Covid, but they are but by not as much what they said. WTF man.
Seriously if my interest in rugby is waning, it's not because of the rugby, or the comps (super ok/still love NPC), or because of league/soccer/AFL, it's waning because of all the negativity from the rugby media which is spilling over to everything (including forums).
I really think some people have just blocked the impact of Covid out of their heads. Even if you don't like the current NZR people they still had a shit show to deal with, and quite frankly it could have gone worse. They set up interim comps, they set up a new ongoing comp, and they did it without the supposed main revenue steam (Saffas) in a tiny market (NZ and what little of Oz still watches rugby). It may not be perfect, but it's not the disaster it's being made out to be.
Hmmm, maybe I should be posting this in the grumpy old man thread.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
He declares "no tangible legacy benefits for the community game". Has he checked how much money has gone into renewing and refreshing club grounds and clubhouses? Infrastructure that, if left alone, would have rotted the game alongside itself?
i see first hand what a difference that infrastructure has in keeping interest in the game, my clubs clubrooms are over a km away from where we play, we get a tent up for the bbq and that it....is see the crowds the other clubs get that have proper facilities and i understand why we struggle for numbers, hard to quantify but hugely important
Some clubs have managed to add that money into, not only facility redevelopment, but the pitches as well. Surely better grounds make for better rugby and prepare better pathways?
i admit my example is my club in melbourne so obviously nothing to do with Silverlake but definitely learnt some lessons around what goes into a club, we're waiting for some of the sweet sweet RWC money
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
He declares "no tangible legacy benefits for the community game". Has he checked how much money has gone into renewing and refreshing club grounds and clubhouses? Infrastructure that, if left alone, would have rotted the game alongside itself?
i see first hand what a difference that infrastructure has in keeping interest in the game, my clubs clubrooms are over a km away from where we play, we get a tent up for the bbq and that it....is see the crowds the other clubs get that have proper facilities and i understand why we struggle for numbers, hard to quantify but hugely important
Some clubs have managed to add that money into, not only facility redevelopment, but the pitches as well. Surely better grounds make for better rugby and prepare better pathways?
i admit my example is my club in melbourne so obviously nothing to do with Silverlake but definitely learnt some lessons around what goes into a club, we're waiting for some of the sweet sweet RWC money
Last time Oz got some of that it was badly frittered away on league players instead of developing generations and spreading infrastructure outside of the existing NSW and QLD clubs
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@Crucial yeah, you would hope they wouldn't make the same mistake again......
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial yeah, you would hope they wouldn't make the same mistake again......
That would be a hope in vain I think when you look at the last few months ...
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2023:
The whole women's rugby section was weird too. The numbers are going because of the WRWC, but not really because they went down because of Covid, but they are but by not as much what they said. WTF man.
Seriously if my interest in rugby is waning, it's not because of the rugby, or the comps (super ok/still love NPC), or because of league/soccer/AFL, it's waning because of all the negativity from the rugby media which is spilling over to everything (including forums).
I really think some people have just blocked the impact of Covid out of their heads. Even if you don't like the current NZR people they still had a shit show to deal with, and quite frankly it could have gone worse. They set up interim comps, they set up a new ongoing comp, and they did it without the supposed main revenue steam (Saffas) in a tiny market (NZ and what little of Oz still watches rugby). It may not be perfect, but it's not the disaster it's being made out to be.
Hmmm, maybe I should be posting this in the grumpy old man thread.
Bang on Nepia, couldn't of put how I feel better if I tried.
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@kiwi_expat I see Clayton MacMillan was asked on the players to Aus thing and sums it up rather weLL I thought.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300868429/daft-draft-clayton-mcmillan-shoots-down-radical-super-rugby-pacific-proposal -
I think this would be the best outcome...
**One solution would be to go back to the future somewhat and cap the number of players Super Rugby franchises can sign or protect. Until the mid-2000s, New Zealand teams used to be able to protect a certain number of players from their catchment areas (remember those?) and then the rest would go into a player pool where franchises could patch up their sides with players from outside their border walls.
It’s an idea that could potentially work again now – if squad numbers were capped at a certain point, it would create more discussion around protected players and the NPC would have another factor as players fight to retain their Super Rugby contracts or put themselves in the prime spot for a draft spot.
Teams could still contract players long-term, but like a salary cap, they’d have to crunch the numbers and plan to make sure they have the right players retained. Get it wrong and you could be handing talent over to an opposition. Give the bottom-placed New Zealand side the first two picks of the unprotected players then work your way down the list from there. Some players would be picked up by their local franchises, but there’d be gems that the big franchises couldn’t protect that end up elsewhere.
Adding back in the old-style draft and throwing away border controls on All Blacks/Wallabies players would give the competition an instant lift. Whether New Zealand franchises have any interest in Australian players outside genuine superstars is still up for debate, but at least the option would be there.**
Why the Super Rugby draft idea is a stinker
Opinion: The Super Rugby draft is a fine idea to float, but it sinks on further analysis.
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@kiwi_expat I would never agree with removing border controls . I liked the idea of catchment etc, but may of meant that super franchises told players ehich NPC team they had to play in? Thought that was one reason it was scrapped.
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@kiwi_expat yeah nah, that wasn't ideal either as super teams 'suggested' players move to a npc team, most often the main one, which strengthened the npc base and weakened its partners (which will be fine if we want to relegate NPC further)
I think what would be better is a pool of players that can be loaned out to other franchises, even multiple teams in a year, would be better for thier development working under different coaches, different environments than never even playing.
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I know it's difficult to forecast fixtures, but it's instructive that (Hurricane's incompetence aside) there's a considerable discrepancy between this round and last week's. Last week was competitive, this week are walkovers.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
I know it's difficult to forecast fixtures, but it's instructive that (Hurricane's incompetence aside) there's a considerable discrepancy between this round and last week's. Last week was competitive, this week are walkovers.
Do you like your hat medium rare or well done?
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@LABCAT said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
I know it's difficult to forecast fixtures, but it's instructive that (Hurricane's incompetence aside) there's a considerable discrepancy between this round and last week's. Last week was competitive, this week are walkovers.
Do you like your hat medium rare or well done?
There's no accounting for moronic wholesale changes in playing groups.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
@LABCAT said in Super Rugby 2023:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2023:
I know it's difficult to forecast fixtures, but it's instructive that (Hurricane's incompetence aside) there's a considerable discrepancy between this round and last week's. Last week was competitive, this week are walkovers.
Do you like your hat medium rare or well done?
There's no accounting for moronic wholesale changes in playing groups.
Canes didn't change many
