The Current State of Rugby
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Decent video here highlighting the in-game and week to week inconsistencies the sport is facing via overzealous and in some cases incompetent refereeing.
Its card roulette and we are all taking turns getting shafted by it.
Thats actually a really good video - unsurprising when it's made by a neutral.
You can't expect 100% consistency. But on actions there shouldn't be variability between nothing and a red card. Yellow/Red .... Penalty/Yellow ... Yes. Penalty/Red .... arguable. No Sanction / Red. This shouldn't' be possible.
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Just thought I would just add a post on this thread that's maybe a little positive?
I spent yesterday arvo at local aprk here in Hawera watching 3 1st XVs play a game of 3 halves preseason fixture, before wandering home and watching Highlanders/Drua and Canes/MP games on tv and a couple of observations. We got some reasonable kids playing game even at 1st XV level, although it hurts that a couple of the good kids from NPHS and FD teams are actually locals that go off up to the bigger schools etc, but that's the reality of it. And watching the couple of games after on tv, they were bloody enjoyable. Added to that the local club comp starts next week, and I see even another local 2/3rd div team is fielding teams again this year, my personal opion is the state of rugby is bloody good right now!! -
will rugby ever catch up? over 80k going to early round domestic games
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@Kiwiwomble Probably not in Aussie , but that's what it is. I see no reason to lose sleep over it.
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@Dan54 purely to spark conversation, not an argument because in general i agree, but....is that going to hinder rugby in NZ...just because NZ isn;t really big enough and our nearest neighbour is losing ground quickly. Maybe im misremembering but i thought league was really on the back foot in the 2000's but seems to have very much turned things around
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This article could go in the NZ U20s thread but it applies to NZ rugby in general.
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@taniwharugby Fuck some of those early engages had some power behind them. Remind me of two of those deers banging horns.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
This article could go in the NZ U20s thread but it applies to NZ rugby in general.
That was a weirdly somewhat positive NZ rugby article.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
He's right
I'm watching maybe a game every fortnight if it doesn't clash. Plenty to improve in the sport, but some big alarm bells have been sounding for a while
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@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
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@Dan54 there have been weak signals for a while. But when Wayne Smith really can't be bothered watching a game, and it's the first time he's turned off at halftime, that is a loud signal.
Look, people move on, but I had tickets to Saturday and couldn't be bothered going. Am finding other ways to spend my discretionary time ... may change if I refind my mojo, but the quality of rugby at the moment is dire. Refs are at the centre of too much, penalties are everywhere, cards follow, it appears almost impossible to legally defend, and refs only want to watch the defensive side - basically I can't be bothered with it most weeks. A massive change from watching all the rugby I could get my hands on a few years ago
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@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”. -
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
> The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”.Which penalties did you think weren't actual offenses?
If a team consistently gives away penalties to prevent a team from scoring, they put themselves in the refs hands. I would argue that "most punters" don't want to seen cynical play, and correct penalties given.
This was a sign of good refereeing, not caring that it was the 81st minute and making a tough call. We've seen plenty of refs swallow a whistle under pressure, this guy should be lauded for the stones to do that.
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On a more general note, as I stated at the beginning of the searon after the early rounds, I'm really enjoying the rugby I'm seeing. Some really good games, Drua finding their feet in particular is a positive.
Speeding up the game is the key IMO, they need to really stick with that and we'll slowly tranistion out of large mass monsters lumbering around for 45mins then getting subbed.
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 there have been weak signals for a while. But when Wayne Smith really can't be bothered watching a game, and it's the first time he's turned off at halftime, that is a loud signal.
Look, people move on, but I had tickets to Saturday and couldn't be bothered going. Am finding other ways to spend my discretionary time ... may change if I refind my mojo, but the quality of rugby at the moment is dire. Refs are at the centre of too much, penalties are everywhere, cards follow, it appears almost impossible to legally defend, and refs only want to watch the defensive side - basically I can't be bothered with it most weeks. A massive change from watching all the rugby I could get my hands on a few years ago
In the mid 90s when flatting I wouldn’t miss a Super game. We’d even get up at 3am to watch the SA games sometimes. Those days are well and truly gone. I’ve probably watched about half a Hurricanes game this year.
Life moves on and priorities change but the officiating and constantly changing the competition isn’t helping attract general viewers.
It is World Cup year though, that will definitely get me tuning in.
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@Kirwan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp To be honest he was right about that game, but it's only news if it's negative isn't it? As you say NZZP you only watch a game a fortnight, so IF it doesn't clash with whatever you watch, so perhaps you miss plenty of good games. I watching plenty that I enjoy.
I think the point he’s trying to make isn’t that all games are like that but that current rulings, laws and coaching have created an environment where that is possible in a game that is actually sold as entertainment.
That is a threat to the product just as if something you manufacture is throwing out an occasional dud which is undermining sales.
Those laws were made with good intentions but have been explored and studied to a conclusion that isn’t great.
> The conclusion to the Blues v MP was another situation that the outcome and happenings where at odds to what most punters want. I don’t know the solution for this one but currently a transgression can lead to downward spiralling further rulings and eventually a PT. Removing a forward for entering the side of a maul on defence (when attackers are allowed to do so at will) then depowers the scrum leading to almost unavoidable further penalties and repeated “offending”.Which penalties did you think weren't actual offenses?
If a team consistently gives away penalties to prevent a team from scoring, they put themselves in the refs hands. I would argue that "most punters" don't want to seen cynical play, and correct penalties given.
This was a sign of good refereeing, not caring that it was the 81st minute and making a tough call. We've seen plenty of refs swallow a whistle under pressure, this guy should be lauded for the stones to do that.
Whoosh.
I'm using it as a example to continue Wayne Smith's comments that if the game gets into a series of ever escalating penalties it becomes a game played out by the whistle rather than the readily visible skilled actions of the players. An 8 on 7 or 8 on 6 scrum isn't that skillful.
Never said the penalties weren't warranted although, in a general sense, the reffing of mauls is one sided. It is a notable occasion when an attacking side player gets pinged for joining ahead of the last man, yet a YC one for a defender.
We have seen these scenarios over and over and I agree that I would have rather seen either team win by either getting over the line or great defence.
Earlier in that game the end situation was reversed and MP played an advantage from a defensive scrum where they smashed the Blues. They managed to score under advantage so the penalties didn't escalate further but it could have ended up with another player in a bin, another smashed scrum and a penalty try. The way things go the could have been cynical and forced that situation.
Personally I don't like the way that one transgression can escalate into a sequence of them because of a weakened scrum. It becomes self fulfilling. A try may as well be awarded back at the maul.
As I said, I don't know the solution but for neutrals watching the game the excitement factor drops.
Maybe scrums must be kept 8 on 8 but you have to lose a back? -
@Crucial penalties weren't falling from the sky, it is possible to defend without infringing. And it's in the realm of possibility to defend with seven (plus a back like what MP did) in the scrum.
Blaming the laws for players actions is an unhelpful take, whatever intepretations we end up with players and coaches will try to find the edge of allowed play. Fatigue is also a factor, and MP were out on their feet and the Blues were able steamroller them because of it.
And that's what we want to see in Rugby.
