NZ All Time XI
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@MN5 said in NZ All Time XI:
@canefan said in NZ All Time XI:
@MN5 said in NZ All Time XI:
@Donsteppa said in NZ All Time XI:
Certainly impressive but also achieved cos he preferred to play county cricket than for his country.
I was only a kid but I found that idea odd. I only remember him fronting for NZ late in his career. Business decision?
I heard he fell out with the selectors.
In saying that’s he’s well in the discussion for a spot as an opener in our all time team but if he played more he’d be a certainty.
First class records can be misleading. Lots of guys ( mainly English ) like Graeme Hick, Mark Ramprakash, Mike Gatting and Allan Lamb had formidable records in county cricket but were pretty bog standard test players. Apparently it’s not the best breeding ground in many cases.
I remember when he came back to the NZ team. His class was evident. I still remember him being the first player I'd seen stepping to leg to expose his stumps and cracking the ball over the off. Amazing
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@MN5 NZ Cricket was amateur in every sense of the word.
Turner had expectations that it would be more professional. Not just financially but attitudinally.
For many years he had combined county cricket with domestic cricket in NZ and test appearances but he was definitely a prickly bastard and had a falling out with the administrators, but really his attitude wasn't all that different to Hadlee's. Turner was ambitious and single-minded - very aware of his career stats.
His career highlights are irrefutable though. For a long time he carried NZ batting and he enjoyed success in every format he played and at all levels.
The County cricket scene in the 1970's was very different to what it morphed into by the time Hicks etc.
Overseas players dominated. Every team had a world class bowling attack. In many ways it was harder for a batsman than a lot of test cricket. It was also an unrelenting grind. Turners first class performances should not be under-rated just because the county game became much less competitive.
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His exploits in the West Indies in '71 and against Oz in' 74 alone should get him his slot. Ironically, he never repeated that Test form in England for some reason.
His Test average of near 45 is just the icing on the cake in many ways as he really did give his all and his professional experience for the team on and off the field was incalculable.
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Turner started out as a blocker - he was noted for his slow scoring and being hard to shift. But he transformed himself by the end of his career such that he hit 300 in a day aged 35.
In the 1973 series (the Congdon tour) he was the star man having hit 1,000 runs before the end of May which was a holy grail in England - he was the first since 1938 to do it and only Hick has managed it since. By the time of the test series he seemed burnt out and failed to score many runs.
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@KiwiPie I think he started out as a dasher in NZ but his technique got found out when he started with Worcester so he remodelled himself as the Kiwi Boycott. Then in his later years reverted more to his younger style
He approached that 1,000 runs target like Hadlee chasing the Double. He looked at the tour itinerary and marked out a plan to get there. Like I said driven and single minded.
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All good info on him from some of our older ferners who remember him
An average of 44 as an opener in that era is excellent, it is a real shame he didn’t play much more than he did.
Also sounds like a rather difficult fellow to get on with which didn’t help.
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Do you guys remember Turner in the commentary box? I recall him as being very serious, very dour. Not surprising that he wasn't everyone's cup of tea.
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@Crazy-Horse said in NZ All Time XI:
Do you guys remember Turner in the commentary box? I recall him as being very serious, very dour. Not surprising that he wasn't everyone's cup of tea.
He was certainly no Kerry “Skull” O’Keefe that’s for sure
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He was also instrumental in our golden years of the 80's. As coach he installed a professional approach and made us hard to beat.
A decade on and his disciplinarian approach didn't go down so well with the likes of Cairns and Parore. Grumpy Turner didn't like precious dicks behaving like prima donnas. Unfortunately? player power won out and NZC ditched Turner.
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So circling back ...is Turner on the NZ Mt Rushmore?
Sounds like a pretty good argument right now to suggest he might be
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@bayimports said in NZ All Time XI:
So circling back ...is Turner on the NZ Mt Rushmore?
Sounds like a pretty good argument right now to suggest he might be
Probably.
Bearing in mind the big jump from 2nd to 3rd I think Ross Taylor deserves some thought at the very least.
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@MN5 said in NZ All Time XI:
@bayimports said in NZ All Time XI:
So circling back ...is Turner on the NZ Mt Rushmore?
Sounds like a pretty good argument right now to suggest he might be
Probably.
Bearing in mind the big jump from 2nd to 3rd I think Ross Taylor deserves some thought at the very least.
i watched Ross hole out to cow corner at crucial times and walk off looking mournfully at the toe of his bat far too often to raise him to such a lofty position
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@dogmeat said in NZ All Time XI:
A decade on and his disciplinarian approach didn't go down so well with the likes of Cairns and Parore. Grumpy Turner didn't like precious dicks behaving like prima donnas. Unfortunately? player power won out and NZC ditched Turner
Turner making Lee Germon captain was very much a 'cut your nose off to spite your face' scenario.
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@mariner4life said in NZ All Time XI:
@MN5 said in NZ All Time XI:
@bayimports said in NZ All Time XI:
So circling back ...is Turner on the NZ Mt Rushmore?
Sounds like a pretty good argument right now to suggest he might be
Probably.
Bearing in mind the big jump from 2nd to 3rd I think Ross Taylor deserves some thought at the very least.
i watched Ross hole out to cow corner at crucial times and walk off looking mournfully at the toe of his bat far too often to raise him to such a lofty position
All tortured genius’s have their flaws.
and given we’ve had fuck all of them he gets a mention. Our top test run scorer for awhile til KW took over.
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@MN5 said in NZ All Time XI:
All good info on him from some of our older ferners who remember him
I haven't been into cricket for a good few years now but, from what I have seen, using the BC's of the last 3-4 years as the basis for an All Time XI makes perfect sense - outstanding generation of players.
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I heard a remarkable stat today on The Top Order podcast.
That Kane Williamson averages 81.5 in NZ test victories, in 40 test wins.
Which is second only to Bradman, who averaged 130ish in test victories.
I'm off to do some statsguruing .....
Edit. here is the query: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting
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^^ Which makes me wonder about the Kane v Hadlee (fore to unthinkable) discussion as the NZ GOAT.
So, did the same for Hadlee, but bowling.
And, well well well ....
Screenshot 2023-03-22 at 4.20.50 PM
Also, Allrounder ranking (still based on the bowling query conditions, so if say - you included a threshold of 100 runs, as well as the 100 wickets condition I was using, he would miss cut).
Screenshot 2023-03-22 at 4.22.37 PM -
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