FIFA World Cup 2022
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@KiwiPie said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
@Crucial said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
No mention on here of the 'France was robbed' missed call on the Argies having their subs on the pitch when a goal was scored (changeover not done properly).
It had no material effect as they were just over-excited thinking a goal had been scored just before it was. Overall too much laxity in allowing subs to run on the field to celebrate goals etc, and not booking anyone who runs on for any reason.
I really don't know how it works but articles I read say that there isn't latitude for materiality, hence the complaint.
In fact I saw the opposite quoted which was that if extra players are on the field for whatever reason when a goal is scored then the goal gets scrubbed. If that is the case (and it seems very heavy handed to me) then I can see why French fans would be annoyed. -
@Crucial The French fans could be annoyed but they'd be hypocrites. Same as they might moan about the Agie keepers shithousery but would be delighted if Lloris had done it.
I haven't really seen much sour grapes from the French. They were outplayed for 80 minutes, came back into it and then were relatively lethargic in extra time - until the mad end.
I don't get all the 'its the greatest final ever" talk.
France were awful. Argentina did what they had to then sat back. France got a goal, suddenly thought we've been outplayed here but shit we could still nick it, got the equaliser and then went back to sleep. I wonder how much the virus took out of them? It was an OK game but not fantastic.
Argies just about deserved to win, but aren't a great side. France however are building some depth and quality. Even with Benzema's retirement
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@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
Argies just about deserved to win, but aren't a great side. France however are building some depth and quality. Even with Benzema's retirement
I was thinking the same. Once Messi goes this Argentinean team looks average. They are workmanlike but don't have the quality in certain areas of the pitch to have sustained success. Relying on Lautaro Martínez to score you goals wouldn't fill me with confidence.
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fuck yes, current Copa America and World Cup champions, average as fuck
this forum, seriously...
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Basically every Argentina game (other than the first one against the Saudi's) followed that same pattern. They did the job early, got out to a 2-0 lead (literally every game apart from Saudi Arabia they lead 2-0 at some point) and then sat back. The Dutch and the French were good enough to capitalize late and force penalties, everyone else was seen off.
If you line up their players one for one with the other squads they might not be the best, but they were the best performing team across the whole tournament for my money.
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@dogmeat The "greatest final ever" refers to the drama and the storylines rather than the quality of the football. I can't remember a game where there was so much drama just in the stoppage times (both at full time and at the end of extra time). If there was a better final for drama, which one was it?
And for that matter, how many great sides have won the World Cup? Brazil 1970 maybe?
Argentina have had more star studded teams in the past but this one played as a team and had some really hard workers (De Paul, Enzo etc) who were able to give Messi that free role that he needs.
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Eurosport Team of the Tournament - posted to spark debate. Alternative names are those found in the Sports Illustrated and Sky Sports UK XIs so Gvardiol, Amrabat, Mbappe & Messi are in all 4 XIs.
Martinez (Arg) - Livakovic (Arg)
Hakimi (Mor) - Juranovic (Cro)
Romero (Arg) - Saiss (Mor) - Maguire (Eng)
Gvardiol (Cro)
Shaw (Eng) - Mazraoui (Mor) - Acuna (Arg)Modric (Cro) - Casemiro (Bra) - Ounahi (Mor)
Amrabat (Mor)
Griezmann (Fra) - Enzo Fernandez (Arg)Saka (Eng) - Alvarez (Arg) - Giroud (Fra)
Mbappe (Fra)
Messi (Arg) -
Seeing only a single Brazilian made me look back at past winner and realised that we've now tied the record for Brazil's longest streak out of the final (5 in a row).
If you ignore pre WWII the Germans have also equalled their record too - missing the finals twice in a row!
I can't really remember what previous teams of the tournament have looked like but feels like a bit less variety than usual, also entirely from the four semi finalists. That makes sense but my (probably faulty) memory is that there's normally a couple of guys from smaller teams who made surprise runs to the quarters that get a look in.
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@KiwiPie Apart from the Messi storyline though...?
Apologies to @mariner4life I think there's a lot of recency bias on display.
Hardly surprising as most people's memories - journo's included - struggle to go back any further than 1990.
1954 'The Miracle in Bern' Germany win their first title by defeating a Hungary team that hadn't been neaten in 5 years and had redefined how the game was played Hungary had 16 shots on target but lost 3-2 the Hungary loss is considered one of the primary reasons for the 1956 anti-communist uprising
1966 Ramsey's wingless wonders Hurts (controversial) hat trick - they think it's over. It is now! Swinging London It's coming home.
1970 Brazil and Italy contesting the right to hold the Jules Rimet trophy in perpetuity by being the first team to win the trophy three times . Brazil score arguably the best team goal of all time. First time held outside Europe/Sth America with over 100K at the final. Some great teams didnt even make the semi's. Contrast with no great teams this time.
1974 Dutch total football vs German efficiency. Cruyff peerless. Cannot overstate Dutch antipathy for Germans 30 years after WWII Dutch toying with Germans and then hubris they lose. Berti Voghts played that day and coached Germany said the German's equalising pen should never have been given FIFA president said result was fixed.
1978 Argentina junta possibly even more reviled tan Qatar No Cruyff after threats against his family Atmosphere a bear pit Start delayed Dirty match Lots of niggle Dutch still almost win before extra time
All of them had drama and a storyline. I'm not saying this year was a bad match but it didn't really do anything until the 80th minute Then had a frantic last 5 minutes of extra time and the drama of a penalty shoot out. Take the Messi meme out and it's a bit meh.
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@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
It was an OK game but not fantastic.
nice post, but i am 45 years old, every single game you mentioned happened prior to me turning 1. hardly surprising i am not fucking raving about them am i?
Never said it was the best final ever, but as someone who has watched an awful lot of fucking dull football games, that was fantastic. And your dismissive post pretty much disregards the stakes as well.
Do i care if it goes down as the greatest ever? no. I can't even remember 4 years ago, let alone the '98 final.
Was it a great game of soccer? undeniably yes.
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@mariner4life My original post was about journalists describing it as the best game ever. I don't expect Ferners to remember games pre 1990. My earliest memory is 1970 and I don't really remember much before 1982. I was going to watch the 78 Final at a house in Stokes Valley but then I was promised a fuck so I still haven't seen the game.
So my comments aren't directed at you. My apology was actually genuine because you'd already made your position clear and I appreciate it.
My issue is with lazy media. How hard would it be for them to actually do their jobs and put 2022 in contest rather than fapping on about the greatest Final ever?
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@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
How hard would it be for them to actually do their jobs and put 2022 in contest rather than fapping on about the greatest Final ever?
it's not just the media my friend. in 2022 everything is ever the best or the worst thing ever.
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@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
@KiwiPie Apart from the Messi storyline though...?
Apologies to @mariner4life I think there's a lot of recency bias on display.
Hardly surprising as most people's memories - journo's included - struggle to go back any further than 1990.
1954 'The Miracle in Bern' Germany win their first title by defeating a Hungary team that hadn't been neaten in 5 years and had redefined how the game was played Hungary had 16 shots on target but lost 3-2 the Hungary loss is considered one of the primary reasons for the 1956 anti-communist uprising
1966 Ramsey's wingless wonders Hurts (controversial) hat trick - they think it's over. It is now! Swinging London It's coming home.
1970 Brazil and Italy contesting the right to hold the Jules Rimet trophy in perpetuity by being the first team to win the trophy three times . Brazil score arguably the best team goal of all time. First time held outside Europe/Sth America with over 100K at the final. Some great teams didnt even make the semi's. Contrast with no great teams this time.
1974 Dutch total football vs German efficiency. Cruyff peerless. Cannot overstate Dutch antipathy for Germans 30 years after WWII Dutch toying with Germans and then hubris they lose. Berti Voghts played that day and coached Germany said the German's equalising pen should never have been given FIFA president said result was fixed.
1978 Argentina junta possibly even more reviled tan Qatar No Cruyff after threats against his family Atmosphere a bear pit Start delayed Dirty match Lots of niggle Dutch still almost win before extra time
All of them had drama and a storyline. I'm not saying this year was a bad match but it didn't really do anything until the 80th minute Then had a frantic last 5 minutes of extra time and the drama of a penalty shoot out. Take the Messi meme out and it's a bit meh.
86 Maradonna v Rummenigge. Spectacular game in my recollection.
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@booboo Don't remeber that game at all even though I would have watched it. I do recall it gave the German manager, Franz Beckenbauer, the record of having lost a Final as a player and a coach. When, four years later in Rome, he managed Germany to a win against Argentina again, it meant he had also won as both player and coach.
Surely he's still the only guy to have this record?
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@KiwiPie said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
Eurosport Team of the Tournament - posted to spark debate. Alternative names are those found in the Sports Illustrated and Sky Sports UK XIs so Gvardiol, Amrabat, Mbappe & Messi are in all 4 XIs.
Martinez (Arg) - Livakovic (Arg)
Hakimi (Mor) - Juranovic (Cro)
Romero (Arg) - Saiss (Mor) - Maguire (Eng)
Gvardiol (Cro)
Shaw (Eng) - Mazraoui (Mor) - Acuna (Arg)Modric (Cro) - Casemiro (Bra) - Ounahi (Mor)
Amrabat (Mor)
Griezmann (Fra) - Enzo Fernandez (Arg)Saka (Eng) - Alvarez (Arg) - Giroud (Fra)
Mbappe (Fra)
Messi (Arg)My team of the tournament.
Martinez (Arg),
Hakimi (Mor), Romero (Arg), Gvardiol (Cro), Theo Hernandez (Fr)
Mordric (Cro), Griezmann (Fr), Enzo Fernandez (Arg)
Messi (Arg) Gakpo ( Neth), Mbappe (Fr) -
@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
@booboo Don't remeber that game at all even though I would have watched it. I do recall it gave the German manager, Franz Beckenbauer, the record of having lost a Final as a player and a coach. When, four years later in Rome, he managed Germany to a win against Argentina again, it meant he had also won as both player and coach.
Surely he's still the only guy to have this record?
Abiding memory was Maradonna had been brilliant in the knock outs dribbling the ball everywhere and scoring some magnificent goals (second against Poms being most famous, but one in the next round against someone I can't remeber was better), but he parked that in the final and just made brilliant one touch passes putting his guys into space.
IIRC Argies were easily better and went ahead 3 times but the Krauts came back twice. Am not sure, but think it may have gone to ET.
I'm not a big soccer fan and have virtually zero memory of other finals but for some reason I have a memory of this one. Not sure how accurate though
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@dogmeat said in FIFA World Cup 2022:
@booboo Don't remeber that game at all even though I would have watched it. I do recall it gave the German manager, Franz Beckenbauer, the record of having lost a Final as a player and a coach. When, four years later in Rome, he managed Germany to a win against Argentina again, it meant he had also won as both player and coach.
Surely he's still the only guy to have this record?
Deschamps achieved it in 2018.
I can't remember how good the 86 final was - but Argentina went 2-0 up and cruising, Germans struck back to make it 2-2 and Burruchaga was put through by Maradona for the winner (quite soon after it became 2-2).
