Parenting
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@antipodean said in Parenting:
Rote learning is a thing of the past.
I see that reflected in the numeracy and literacy...
Yeah I find it curious that they teach kids all sorts of different strategies to work things out. Sometimes memorising is the best way
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I went to a prestigious private school in Sydney. My parents would be unable to afford the fees, but my dad had been a teacher there for 30+ years so we were educated for free as one of the perks of his employment there.
I loved the school, though I didn't like most of the people I was there with. I didn't really see it at the time, but the vast majority were pampered rich kids and complete piston wristed gibbons. While my family was by no means doing it tough we certainly didn't have much in common.
But the school itself was excellent. Teachers were all committed and high quality, many had been there for decades and many had went there themselves. Facilities obviously fantastic too.
I was really into all the extra-curricular stuff, especially sport. Played everything I could, did cadets, debating, the school newsletter, played in the band etc etc. Took advantage of most of the things the school afforded. I think it's held me in good stead in my professional career.
So that's the case for Sydney GPS private schooling. Great if you can put up with the piston wristed gibbons, or if you are a piston wristed gibbon yourself.
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@barbarian said in Parenting:
I went to a prestigious private school in Sydney. My parents would be unable to afford the fees, but my dad had been a teacher there for 30+ years so we were educated for free as one of the perks of his employment there.
I loved the school, though I didn't like most of the people I was there with. I didn't really see it at the time, but the vast majority were pampered rich kids and complete piston wristed gibbons. While my family was by no means doing it tough we certainly didn't have much in common.
But the school itself was excellent. Teachers were all committed and high quality, many had been there for decades and many had went there themselves. Facilities obviously fantastic too.
I was really into all the extra-curricular stuff, especially sport. Played everything I could, did cadets, debating, the school newsletter, played in the band etc etc. Took advantage of most of the things the school afforded. I think it's held me in good stead in my professional career.
So that's the case for Sydney GPS private schooling. Great if you can put up with the piston wristed gibbons, or if you are a piston wristed gibbon yourself.
Fuck, who can afford the fees these days ? Seriously ?
I’m doing pretty well and I have a well paid other half with no kids ( fuck I hit the jackpot there just quietly, amongst her other awesome qualities ) but there is NO FUCKEN WAY she would be happy if the ex decided to send the boys to private school and stung me for half the fees. I’d be drinking water for the rest of my life.
I hate that private school stigma, anyone who judges a person on what school they went to is nothing but an absolute fluffybunny in my eyes.
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Plenty of rubbish being spoken in here about schools, much speculation.
The truth of the matter is, a great school is a very personal decision for a child. What works for some, most definitely won't work for others.
By way of background, I went to PNBHS and loved it - was sporty and decent at academics, and had a great time. Cost $300 p.a. (optional), and I was a massive sceptic of private schools. Maybe I still am in NZ because of the quality of many public schools.
Here in Oz I have 3 kids in school, 2 in a co-ed private school, one in the local public school. The differences during covid were chalk and cheese. Private school was prepared, engaged, disciplined. The kids knew what they were doing, and what was expected of them. Multiple zooms per day, great tech. The Public school in contrast was a joke - disorganised, lacking intent, they'd have had no idea what my kid was actually up to.
Clearly Covid is not standard play, but it was a stark reminder of the difference in quality. There is no doubt you can get great teachers in a public school, but I'd say by far the most consistent quality is in the private schools. They push them harder, they expect more of them.
As @barbarian says, the opportunities are typically greater also for sport and extra-curricular activities. And as @canefan alluded to, certainly the support framework is better for those both struggling and excelling in the classroom.
The nonsense about rote learning is just tripe. Maybe there are a couple of schools that focus on HSC scores and rankings above other stuff, but it's not the norm. My kids school are constantly looking at the future of learning and work, and how they can change the curriculum to suit. They engage in plenty of team project work, work on leadership skills etc, - it's a long way from memorising formulae and exam technique.
Is it worth the cost? I don't think you can really answer that in absolute terms. For my oldest, absolutely. For my middle kid, probably not, but she followed her brother there. For my youngest, we doubt it and will probably look at other HS options at the time.
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Plenty of rubbish being spoken in here about schools, much speculation.
The truth of the matter is, a great school is a very personal decision for a child. What works for some, most definitely won't work for others.
By way of background, I went to PNBHS and loved it - was sporty and decent at academics, and had a great time. Cost $300 p.a. (optional), and I was a massive sceptic of private schools. Maybe I still am in NZ because of the quality of many public schools.
Here in Oz I have 3 kids in school, 2 in a co-ed private school, one in the local public school. The differences during covid were chalk and cheese. Private school was prepared, engaged, disciplined. The kids knew what they were doing, and what was expected of them. Multiple zooms per day, great tech. The Public school in contrast was a joke - disorganised, lacking intent, they'd have had no idea what my kid was actually up to.
Clearly Covid is not standard play, but it was a stark reminder of the difference in quality. There is no doubt you can get great teachers in a public school, but I'd say by far the most consistent quality is in the private schools. They push them harder, they expect more of them.
As @barbarian says, the opportunities are typically greater also for sport and extra-curricular activities. And as @canefan alluded to, certainly the support framework is better for those both struggling and excelling in the classroom.
The nonsense about rote learning is just tripe. Maybe there are a couple of schools that focus on HSC scores and rankings above other stuff, but it's not the norm. My kids school are constantly looking at the future of learning and work, and how they can change the curriculum to suit. They engage in plenty of team project work, work on leadership skills etc, - it's a long way from memorising formulae and exam technique.
Is it worth the cost? I don't think you can really answer that in absolute terms. For my oldest, absolutely. For my middle kid, probably not, but she followed her brother there. For my youngest, we doubt it and will probably look at other HS options at the time.
I agree with you, it not an exact science. What suits one kid won't necessarily work for all. But all things considered, the academic support, the opportunities for personal growth and the sporting/ cultural opportunities suit CFJr 100%. Covid19 definitely widened the gulf in quality of schooling. We are pulling Ms CF out of the local state school because the Principal has scaled back on extracurricular activities, has allowed more teachers to work 4 day weeks which means more wasted time with relievers. They have a lot to answer for, I hadn't planned on the expenditure for another year maybe 2
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Parenting:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Parenting:
Just further on my son's ex. She is apparently now a they. She changed her name from Oceania to Tobias. What the actual fůck?
Guy at my mate's work has a wife.
Wife has decided to become a man.
A cock is being put on in a few weeks.
Weird thing is, he is still committed to her.
Fully supports it apparently. (love transcends physical boundaries or some shit)
I don't believe it.
Deep down, I bet he is thinking WTFThat is next level weird. Maybe he's actually gay and is looking forward to being able to bang a man?
Nah. He is actually really depressed most of the time apparently.
Don't know whether it is because of this situation he feel trapped in.
But he built a big identity around being uber-liberal and tolerant, and perhaps now is realizing he ain't as tolerant as he first thought.Been there, done that, bought the shirt 😔
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Plenty of rubbish being spoken in here about schools, much speculation.
The truth of the matter is, a great school is a very personal decision for a child. What works for some, most definitely won't work for others.
By way of background, I went to PNBHS and loved it - was sporty and decent at academics, and had a great time. Cost $300 p.a. (optional), and I was a massive sceptic of private schools. Maybe I still am in NZ because of the quality of many public schools.
Here in Oz I have 3 kids in school, 2 in a co-ed private school, one in the local public school. The differences during covid were chalk and cheese. Private school was prepared, engaged, disciplined. The kids knew what they were doing, and what was expected of them. Multiple zooms per day, great tech. The Public school in contrast was a joke - disorganised, lacking intent, they'd have had no idea what my kid was actually up to.
Clearly Covid is not standard play, but it was a stark reminder of the difference in quality. There is no doubt you can get great teachers in a public school, but I'd say by far the most consistent quality is in the private schools. They push them harder, they expect more of them.
As @barbarian says, the opportunities are typically greater also for sport and extra-curricular activities. And as @canefan alluded to, certainly the support framework is better for those both struggling and excelling in the classroom.
The nonsense about rote learning is just tripe. Maybe there are a couple of schools that focus on HSC scores and rankings above other stuff, but it's not the norm. My kids school are constantly looking at the future of learning and work, and how they can change the curriculum to suit. They engage in plenty of team project work, work on leadership skills etc, - it's a long way from memorising formulae and exam technique.
Is it worth the cost? I don't think you can really answer that in absolute terms. For my oldest, absolutely. For my middle kid, probably not, but she followed her brother there. For my youngest, we doubt it and will probably look at other HS options at the time.
I agree with you, it not an exact science. What suits one kid won't necessarily work for all. But all things considered, the academic support, the opportunities for personal growth and the sporting/ cultural opportunities suit CFJr 100%.
Definitely horses for courses. My kid does better in a small pond. He wasn't extrovert enough (even with sports) to push himself forward to be noticed yet at the local state school became a school leader, captain of the 1st XV and 1st XI, was sent on leadership courses and got a good perspective on the wider community. That was my biggest concern about private schools (apart from religion). The elitism aspect that can't be avoided.
He was never academic and just held his own in that regard but had gone on to create himself a job he loves and makes good money. Life skills far outweigh school stuff but you can also get a lot of life skills at school. -
My immediate reaction to the question about the advantages of private schools is resources.
Played footy here in regional Qld with a couple of blokes, both Phys Ed teachers. One HOD at a local church based school (he'd actually played a bit of non NPC footy at senior provincial level in NZ ... but I digress), the other teacher at one of the local state High Schools.
Chatting to them one day about access to sports equipment, and the latter was so envious of the former's access to equipment. I'm making up the numbers a bit but it's not too far off the mark.
SHS guy would have say 2 x basketballs. Full stop. For a whole class. Private school guy would have one per student.
Same with athletic stuff. Hugh jump mattresses etc etc. (Not one each ... but mire than enough... in good condition.)
FYI - There are several local private schools. All church based. But the fees generally reflect the market. Probably 5-10% of some of the "prestigious" City schools.
The State schools have a less than stellar reputation, so the private schools are popular.
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Fuck, who can afford the fees these days ? Seriously ?
I’m doing pretty well and I have a well paid other half with no kids ( fuck I hit the jackpot there just quietly, amongst her other awesome qualities ) but there is NO FUCKEN WAY she would be happy if the ex decided to send the boys to private school and stung me for half the fees. I’d be drinking water for the rest of my life.
I hate that private school stigma, anyone who judges a person on what school they went to is nothing but an absolute fluffybunny in my eyes.
Yeah I've got no hope of being able to afford to send my 18 month old son to the same place I went. And my dad went. And his dad went. And my mum's dad went. And her brothers. And my wife's grandfather and uncle.
I put him on the waiting list but even in 12 years I've got no chance of being able to afford it. And my wife objects to it all as well.
It might be a tough conversation with family but that's 2032 barbarian's problem.
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@barbarian get the family to stump up if they're so concerned..?
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@antipodean said in Parenting:
In another example of why I'm pleased I don't have kids. Two different friends/ acquaintances have had nothing but problems with sons who refuse to go to school (excellent private schools) and instead have decided it's more fun taking drugs.
Every possible advantage and these ungrateful shits are doing their level best to throw it all away.
Possibly off topic but can anyone tell me what advantages someone going to a private school has over someone going to a state school ?
I know two brothers who went to Scots in Wellington and judging from their spelling, grammar and punctuation English was not a subject that was taken too seriously there.
Contrast that with the list of subjects my oldest boy is taking at his ( state ) school this year. Forensics looks fucken awesome, where was that when I was a lad ?
It really depends on the schools. The myth is that private schools are much better, but there are massive variations. Some state schools are terrific while some are utter shit. All I can say is that the private school my eldest went was much better than the state school in our area he attended before that. The class sizes were smaller, the resources better and more focussed, and there were far fewer juvenile delinquents (see the posts above re network). There were also other minor factors such as pride in appearance and better discipline. I'm really glad my youngest goes to a private school. He's a legimately gifted kid (gets it from his mother) and that can be managed and fostered much better without all the noise. Yes there are dickheads at his private school, but not the sheer volume he would have had to face at the local state school.
I think ultimately that if you keep your head down, focus and don't need to be spoon fed then it doesn't make much difference. But not all kids are capable of that. Probably the best option is a good state school in a nice area, but that usually means paying absurd prices for homes in the catchment area.
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@barbarian said in Parenting:
Fuck, who can afford the fees these days ? Seriously ?
I’m doing pretty well and I have a well paid other half with no kids ( fuck I hit the jackpot there just quietly, amongst her other awesome qualities ) but there is NO FUCKEN WAY she would be happy if the ex decided to send the boys to private school and stung me for half the fees. I’d be drinking water for the rest of my life.
I hate that private school stigma, anyone who judges a person on what school they went to is nothing but an absolute fluffybunny in my eyes.
Yeah I've got no hope of being able to afford to send my 18 month old son to the same place I went. And my dad went. And his dad went. And my mum's dad went. And her brothers. And my wife's grandfather and uncle.
I put him on the waiting list but even in 12 years I've got no chance of being able to afford it. And my wife objects to it all as well.
It might be a tough conversation with family but that's 2032 barbarian's problem.
That's also a thing. The poncy parents. My tryhard aristocrat mum was appalled when I said I was sending my eldest to a state school. She calmed down a bit when she actually visited the place but clearly vomited in her mouth at the prospect of telling the ladies where her grandson was going. Obviously she then teleporting to Cloud 9 when he got a scholarship to a private school.
She doesn't seem to realise that this isn't 1988. A one income lower middle-class family (mechanic) can't send their kids to private schools anymore. A guy who used to coach my son in rugby went to Churchie (now the most expensive school in Brisbane). His words were: "I went to Churchie when the middle class could still afford to send their kids there."
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@Rancid-Schnitzel I don't actually think my parents will really mind. My dad just has a very deep connection to the place - he went there, he taught there for the vast majority of his working life, he coached sport there, he practically lived there. Still works there now in his retirement.
So saying we're taking our son elsewhere may come as a blow, but we just can't afford it. Which is almost a luxury because if we could afford it I'm not sure we'd want to send him there either, and THAT is a much tougher conversation...
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@barbarian said in Parenting:
@Rancid-Schnitzel I don't actually think my parents will really mind. My dad just has a very deep connection to the place - he went there, he taught there for the vast majority of his working life, he coached sport there, he practically lived there. Still works there now in his retirement.
So saying we're taking our son elsewhere may come as a blow, but we just can't afford it. Which is almost a luxury because if we could afford it I'm not sure we'd want to send him there either, and THAT is a much tougher conversation...
It's definitely worthy of a cost-benefit analysis. You can go on one hell of family holiday for one year of school fees.
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My kids go to the local Catholic school, and it is good for them. Plenty of creative outlet as the school is academic- and arts-focussed, so not as much about the sport sides of things. The fees run to about $4k each p.a. which I think is pretty decent given the facilities and the fact there is a discount for each extra child - 4th kid is basically free I think? Never found out
Friends of ours had 2 kids, and by the time the first one reached primary school at a local independent ($12k even for junior school) she got pregnant again. And then again. So they pulled out of that shit (shame he didn't - ha!) and went to the local Anglican College.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Parenting:
She calmed down a bit when she actually visited the place
Some awesome state/public schools out there. And that's the thing I guess: hit and miss. Some of them are fucking awful but TBH that is more about the constituents than the teachers, who I think do a tough job well, by and large.
I went to little country schools (Primary K-6 was 50 kids, High School 7-12 was a tick over 300). Long term teachers for the most part, knew their shit, and dedicated. It wasn't all roses but I turned out ok
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Possibly off topic but can anyone tell me what advantages someone going to a private school has over someone going to a state school ?
I know two brothers who went to Scots in Wellington and judging from their spelling, grammar and punctuation English was not a subject that was taken too seriously there.
Contrast that with the list of subjects my oldest boy is taking at his ( state ) school this year. Forensics looks fucken awesome, where was that when I was a lad ?
Opposite side of the world but I have a fair bit to offer.
Views on private schools are the same as anything these internet infested days. Take your position, and you'll find supporting evidence of that. Somebody above said it's all about networking, meeting CEO's etc etc, that is undoubtedly true of a few schools, but certainly not the majority. We have everything at the schools our kids attend. CEO's of M & A houses, Hedge Fund Managers, Actuaries .... Plumbers, Teachers, Nurses. Everything. I would guess your average would be VP level in a bank in a tech job.
We do have a very good look into the state sector though due to the sporting clubs our kids attend, and the distinction is pretty clear on the main differences. Private school is almost a lifestyle, state school is where your kids go to school. Key teaching difference is class size, where as my kids have about 15-17 in their classes, state sector has 30 ish. This means a lot more 1-1 learning (when needed) as well. It's very academic where I am though, which means my kids are unfortunately a bit behind the curve. The UK has an aptitude testing system where by children do tests on Maths, English, Verbal Reasoning & Non Verbal Reasoning. 100 is the average, 141 is the top - mine are around 120 which puts them in the lower sets.
The second thing where private schools are different is the extra curricular. They play sport against other schools every Wednesday afternoon as a minimum, quite often there are others as well. Then after school it's a range of activities to choose from - pretty much so all sports (right up to Fencing), as well as things like drama, coding etc etc. Then from a parents point of view we have multiple things - dinners, balls, fund raisers, golf days etc etc. As I said, it's a lifestyle. The children also have insane levels of trips. Last year, my son went to Isle of Wight (outdoor adventure), Paris (Disney + others), Holland (football) & will likely go to St Lucia for cricket next year.
This obviously makes it fucking expensive & outside of a lot of peoples means. However, the UK is turning & turning quite fast on private schools. Despite all the talk of levelling up, it's really about levelling down. Your grades get marked down now for university entrance, Labour are talking about charging VAT / Tax on it (which is insanely fucking stupid but is likely to happen - imagine paying a tax to save a government money) & there is a lot of looking down on it. Gone are the days where everybody could do it if they wanted to ... well, they haven't really, but gone are the days of people thinking working hard to achieve more is a fair way of living. Reality is that I wouldn't live here without it.
The state sector, like anything in the UK, gets a bad wrap in the press, but I don't know anybody whose unhappy with the service they are getting at the schools. Tutoring is very accessible so if you think your kids are struggling with something, the cost of a private tutor a couple of hours a week is affordable. If I was in NZ, I think I'd be going state for sure and then the tutor route if need be to top up.
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@MajorRage said in Parenting:
Your grades get marked down now for university entrance, Labour are talking about charging VAT / Tax on it (which is insanely fucking stupid but is likely to happen - imagine paying a tax to save a government money
Am I right in saying there is no government allocation to private schools at all in the UK?
Contrast that to Australia, where there is a lot of contention about how much government funding goes into schools outside the public system, and what forms it takes (grants, direct funding etc)
I don't mind a system where tax money is evenly distributed e.g. regardless of what school a kid goes to, they're supported by appropriate state/federal tax money to the same degree. If you want to pay overs, then you pick your school and pay the difference.
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@MajorRage said in Parenting:
Your grades get marked down now for university entrance, Labour are talking about charging VAT / Tax on it (which is insanely fucking stupid but is likely to happen - imagine paying a tax to save a government money
Am I right in saying there is no government allocation to private schools at all in the UK?
Contrast that to Australia, where there is a lot of contention about how much government funding goes into schools outside the public system, and what forms it takes (grants, direct funding etc)
I don't mind a system where tax money is evenly distributed e.g. regardless of what school a kid goes to, they're supported by appropriate state/federal tax money to the same degree. If you want to pay overs, then you pick your school and pay the difference.
No, zero. But they have charitable status which means they don't pay tax. It does mean they can channel funds more efficiently, which I have no problems with a crack down on (i.e - rich guy donates 2mill to a charity, it's a tax write off etc), but the idea of adding VAT is absurd. This also removes the requirement that the schools do things with the communities / state schools. So if 20% is added, the schools will immediately remove everything they don't need to (saves about 10%) to keep as many students as they can.
It doesn't fucking help that Starmer straight up lies when he says the Government is giving them money. It's bullshit. They are just not demanding they charge VAT. The even stupider thing is which subset of parents do you think will no longer be able to afford private school due to this ... Certainly not the CEO's, HF managers Actuaries ....
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@MajorRage said in Parenting:
@MajorRage said in Parenting:
Your grades get marked down now for university entrance, Labour are talking about charging VAT / Tax on it (which is insanely fucking stupid but is likely to happen - imagine paying a tax to save a government money
Am I right in saying there is no government allocation to private schools at all in the UK?
Contrast that to Australia, where there is a lot of contention about how much government funding goes into schools outside the public system, and what forms it takes (grants, direct funding etc)
I don't mind a system where tax money is evenly distributed e.g. regardless of what school a kid goes to, they're supported by appropriate state/federal tax money to the same degree. If you want to pay overs, then you pick your school and pay the difference.
No, zero. But they have charitable status which means they don't pay tax. It does mean they can channel funds more efficiently, which I have no problems with a crack down on (i.e - rich guy donates 2mill to a charity, it's a tax write off etc), but the idea of adding VAT is absurd. This also removes the requirement that the schools do things with the communities / state schools. So if 20% is added, the schools will immediately remove everything they don't need to (saves about 10%) to keep as many students as they can.
It doesn't fucking help that Starmer straight up lies when he says the Government is giving them money. It's bullshit. They are just not demanding they charge VAT. The even stupider thing is which subset of parents do you think will no longer be able to afford private school due to this ... Certainly not the CEO's, HF managers Actuaries ....
It’s somewhat related (and somewhat not) but Gladwell’s story about private HEI’s in the USA suggest that they are truly fucking the government and their students.
He wrote about (edit) Princeton (fees 80k a year) having returns on their endowments actually covering costs and then some.
I’m not suggesting that private schools in the UK are in that boat, but if I were in government I’d want to see that they were using their tax status as intended.