Who are you watching as priority?
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@booboo said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@booboo said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Currently 71% to 18% ..
FYI... interview with Louusa Wall ..
7:15 am Thursday from 3:13 in.
You 71% "are out of line in New Zealand .." according to Wall.
Also ..
"The public [are wanting the Black Ferns to be the priority]"
...and it was an intentional decision by NZR...
Hosking's comment that the ABs are understandably the priority is correct as the money they generate funds all the levels below. Including the BFs.
So accept that that the blokes are subsidising you, or get paid less.
Not necessarily the case. As NZRPA rightly point out, the women’s game has huge value to sponsors. They actively encourage the growth.
The concept that it is solely eyes on the tv that generates cash is incorrect.Possibly overstating my case. There's a big potential market in women's rugby, at least bigger than it is now. But it’s likely to remain smaller than men's and I suspect the latter will continue to support the former.
Also, can't remember if I got around to mentioning, but seems the ABs match was very limited for time slots because of the baseball playoffs.
I think the baseball game is after the ABs from something I read. It doesn't really matter what the details or what could or couldn't be done. The fact is that they missed it from the start which is a pointer to NZR not being very well organised.
Your two flagship XVs teams are playing and you don't even realise that there is a clash. Do they not have calendars?One does not 'support' the other. That is a very simplistic view.
There is an 'association' aspect for sponsors, for example, where people may view a company positively because of their support or stated aims.By the way the viewing numbers in the UK for the Womens RWC final last tournament were 50% of the mens and I expect that will be higher this time.
Also, why would any business not put support into a growth are when their main income stream is declining? -
@Frank said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Women's rugby sucks and no amount of marketing BS will convince me otherwise.
I'm sure that my disagreement with this comment is no surprise but I wonder what you are looking for in a rugby game?
I like watching it because (as I have stated before), all of the things that professionalism 'ruined' in the game still shine at that level. You have some extremely skilled play (and some not) that gives some wow moments. Sure you can say 'that only happened because the defence was shit' but for me that is a very negative way to try and enjoy a sport. After all, we watch for entertainment rather than science (at least I do).
It's not perfect and it is often not fully engaging but I also get some fun watching it. There have been some outrageously good tries scored in this RWC. -
@Yeetyaah said in Who are you watching as priority?:
First half of the AB's then flick it over and watch the Black Ferns. Watch the second half of the ABs later on.
@Yeetyaah exactly the same here.
In ranking the two matches, I'll go with the game that has the most meaning or significance which is the Quarter Final match between the Black Ferns and Wales.
The AB match is a stop over match for the 2nd stringers to get a run so, in terms of meaning or significance, there really is no comparison.
Plus, I personally really enjoy and am invested in the woman's game, especially the Black Ferns.
I was in NZ celebrating, belatedly, my youngest brother's 50th birthday. It was also time to spend with the NZ whanau which was awesome as it was the first time seeing everyone since COVID.
We planned the 50th around the Bledisloe Cup match at Eden Park. As an aside, the Bled at EP has been a bucket list item for me as I've watched other Bled's, all in Australia in the late 90's and early 2000's which wasn't great as each game I watched, the AB's lost.
Anyway, on Saturday, my Bro's and Cuzzies all wanted to go drinking in the city before heading to EP for the AB game. So off we all went and found a decent pub but I left early as I really wanted to watch the Black Ferns play first and sat there alone in the stadium (well not alone, there was a good crowd who arrived early to watch) and loved it!
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@kiwiinmelb said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Here in Australia they play a womens version of afl ,
I find that one to be the worst of the womens football codes , the skills required to play that game seem to be more difficult for them to master .
I think they are a few years off it and that’s understandable because the AFLW players right now are basically women who grew up playing other team or individual sports at a decent level, are runners turned footy players and never played any high level junior footy.
As the junior footy level gets better and more girls play it competitively from a younger age and those unique Aussie rules instincts become more natural, then we will see better. I’ve taken my kids to a couple of AFLW games this season and for seasoned AFL watchers it’s a tough watch, but my kids enjoyed it especially a couple of my younger ones who just watch it for what it is.
I kind of think womens league is probably the most watchable of the lot.
You know I’m a league supporter so you’ll take this the right way, but it’s a simpler game with very little nuance to it - run hard and straight ahead, don’t fluff the play of the ball and tackle. No scrums, no rucks, no 360 degree vision, no kicking or passing for the majority of them, no handballs etc
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I’ll be watching the ABs live and then the BFs afterwards.
If the BFs match was against say England or OZ and was a semi or final I’d think about having it on at the same time, but even then I’d probably wait so I could enjoy it more.
I think this AB match is pretty important for some of our fringe ABs and who will make the AB squad heading into 2023. So I’m pretty excited for watching that. Plus the team and coaches are still under some pressure and I quite enjoy watching the team when they are under the pump to see how they respond.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Frank said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Women's rugby sucks and no amount of marketing BS will convince me otherwise.
Here in Australia they play a womens version of afl ,
I find that one to be the worst of the womens football codes , the skills required to play that game seem to be more difficult for them to master .
There's too many teams in the AFLW, which dilutes the talent and its value as a sporting spectacle. This is most noticeable when a team can't score a single goal in the entire match.
Case in point:
- Crows vs Giants. Giants scored a single solitary behind and were thumped 97 - 1.
- Kangaroos vs Swans. Swans matched the Giants' scoring prowess. And got beaten by 68 points.
- Power vs Crows. Power scored three behinds to lose by 60.
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@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@booboo said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Currently 71% to 18% ..
FYI... interview with Louusa Wall ..
7:15 am Thursday from 3:13 in.
You 71% "are out of line in New Zealand .." according to Wall.
Also ..
"The public [are wanting the Black Ferns to be the priority]"
...and it was an intentional decision by NZR...
Hosking's comment that the ABs are understandably the priority is correct as the money they generate funds all the levels below. Including the BFs.
So accept that that the blokes are subsidising you, or get paid less.
Not necessarily the case. As NZRPA rightly point out, the women’s game has huge value to sponsors. They actively encourage the growth.
The concept that it is solely eyes on the tv that generates cash is incorrect.If there isn't viewership, then it isn't sponsorship, it's charity. Women don't support women's sports like men support sports.
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@antipodean maybe that is one for the politics thread or elsewhere.
This discussion is about whether the women’s game brings value to the NZRU.
I think you may need to widen your view on how sponsorship works these days. Do any of us give a shit about Altrad? I doubt it. At least not to any extent of direct effect. The same situation applies with the women’s game. Call it virtue signalling if you will but major sponsors want their name associated with the women’s game, not because of viewership but because of association and active support.
NZRPA have done the maths and suggest that the idea that the men’s game supports the women’s is a fallacy. Major funding that supports the men’s game is dependent on a functioning women’s game.
Viewership is obviously a factor with things like TV rights but even then broadcasters want more women’s programming with or without equal viewing. Broadcasters need new product. The women’s game provides.
There is also the factor that NZR would be stupid to ignore the only growing area of the game.
Think of it like a big corporate brewer. The DB Export might pay the wages but they also need to invest in the “craft” offerings in their portfolio.
For me, if the men’s game wants to survive and be strong the women’s game needs to be part of the total sports offerings. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@kiwiinmelb said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Here in Australia they play a womens version of afl ,
I find that one to be the worst of the womens football codes , the skills required to play that game seem to be more difficult for them to master .
I think they are a few years off it and that’s understandable because the AFLW players right now are basically women who grew up playing other team or individual sports at a decent level, are runners turned footy players and never played any high level junior footy.
As the junior footy level gets better and more girls play it competitively from a younger age and those unique Aussie rules instincts become more natural, then we will see better. I’ve taken my kids to a couple of AFLW games this season and for seasoned AFL watchers it’s a tough watch, but my kids enjoyed it especially a couple of my younger ones who just watch it for what it is.
I kind of think womens league is probably the most watchable of the lot.
You know I’m a league supporter so you’ll take this the right way, but it’s a simpler game with very little nuance to it - run hard and straight ahead, don’t fluff the play of the ball and tackle. No scrums, no rucks, no 360 degree vision, no kicking or passing for the majority of them, no handballs etc
Played both rugby codes and got involved with a bit of defensive coaching in Aussie rules .
I agree with everything you said 😁 -
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean maybe that is one for the politics thread or elsewhere.
No, it goes directly to support.
This discussion is about whether the women’s game brings value to the NZRU.
Which in the final analysis is financial.
I think you may need to widen your view on how sponsorship works these days. Do any of us give a shit about Altrad? I doubt it. At least not to any extent of direct effect. The same situation applies with the women’s game. Call it virtue signalling if you will but major sponsors want their name associated with the women’s game, not because of viewership but because of association and active support.
So you agree sponsors of the women's game aren't expecting to see a return, it's all about ESG.
NZRPA have done the maths and suggest that the idea that the men’s game supports the women’s is a fallacy. Major funding that supports the men’s game is dependent on a functioning women’s game.
If that were the case, it would be self sufficient in terms of funding. Is it?
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@antipodean I am actually very surprised how narrow your view is.
Yes, value is financial and, as mentioned, the numbers have been calculated and don’t support your argument. The women’s game brings in more money than it spends. Whatever the motivations for that income it still exists.
Sponsors take into account direct and indirect benefits from their spends. It isn’t always direct and if a BCR pans out to their advantage then they will invest. -
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean I am actually very surprised how narrow your view is.
It's professional sport. Finances matter.
Yes, value is financial and, as mentioned, the numbers have been calculated and don’t support your argument. The women’s game brings in more money than it spends.
Show me the data.
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@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean I am actually very surprised how narrow your view is.
It's professional sport. Finances matter.
Yes, value is financial and, as mentioned, the numbers have been calculated and don’t support your argument. The women’s game brings in more money than it spends.
Show me the data.
We are both talking about finances. Sponsors put in money because they see benefits. They see benefits to themselves in supporting the game as a whole, including the womens game. If the womens game wasn't there they wouldn't see as much benefit.
I dont know how much clearer I can make it.The data isn't released publically. I am going of statements by Rob Nicholl.
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@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean I am actually very surprised how narrow your view is.
It's professional sport. Finances matter.
Yes, value is financial and, as mentioned, the numbers have been calculated and don’t support your argument. The women’s game brings in more money than it spends.
Show me the data.
We are both talking about finances. Sponsors put in money because they see benefits. They see benefits to themselves in supporting the game as a whole, including the womens game. If the womens game wasn't there they wouldn't see as much benefit.
I dont know how much clearer I can make it.The irony here is I'm feeling you're being deliberately obtuse. Sponsorship implies a positive return from association with a brand. If that return isn't financial (advertising outlay for the same exposure, purchasing of products by fans etc.) then it's ESG related - warm and fuzzies.
The data isn't released publically. I am going of statements by Rob Nicholl.
Then I'm sceptical based on real world examples practically everywhere else.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Stargazer said in Who are you watching as priority?:
I read the question wrong and picked BFs.
If both games were on Sky, I'd indeed watch the BFs live because it's a World Cup QF and the ABs game is just a meaningless money grab. But I don't have Spark Sport, so I'll watch the ABs live and the replay of the BFs game on TV3.
We are growing the game….
I think it’s a good fixture heading into a northern tour.
I agree it's not a meaningless fixture at all, Japan just hosted a RWC and there's plenty of interest in the game over there, I think playing them more often is a great thing to do.
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@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@booboo said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Currently 71% to 18% ..
FYI... interview with Louusa Wall ..
7:15 am Thursday from 3:13 in.
You 71% "are out of line in New Zealand .." according to Wall.
Also ..
"The public [are wanting the Black Ferns to be the priority]"
...and it was an intentional decision by NZR...
Hosking's comment that the ABs are understandably the priority is correct as the money they generate funds all the levels below. Including the BFs.
So accept that that the blokes are subsidising you, or get paid less.
Not necessarily the case. As NZRPA rightly point out, the women’s game has huge value to sponsors. They actively encourage the growth.
The concept that it is solely eyes on the tv that generates cash is incorrect.If there isn't viewership, then it isn't sponsorship, it's charity. Women don't support women's sports like men support sports.
Good old Bill sure tells it like it is.
As has probably been evident from the ( lack of ) quality of my sports analysis on here I don’t have the time or inclination to watch a hell of a lot of sport these days compared to my early 20s ( Yet paradoxically enough I still stick around on a Rugby forum )
Woman’s Rugby is VERY far down the list of stuff to watch. If a person wants to watch, support etc then they can fill their boots but it’s just not for me. Just a slower, weaker, less skilled and less athletic version of the male game. That’s how it is to me and lots of others.
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I've seen AFLW live. It's definitely a worse product than women's rugby or league. To me it suffers where bball also suffers, in that the women don't have the same physical attributes to play in the air. So while in rugby a slightly slower step or swerve can best a slightly slower defender amd it still looks cool, in aerial games you're actually removing a significant part of the game. Amazing marks, guys leaping for blocks or dunks etc.
Edit - other than this woman of course:
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@ACT-Crusader said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Stargazer said in Who are you watching as priority?:
I read the question wrong and picked BFs.
If both games were on Sky, I'd indeed watch the BFs live because it's a World Cup QF and the ABs game is just a meaningless money grab. But I don't have Spark Sport, so I'll watch the ABs live and the replay of the BFs game on TV3.
We are growing the game….
I think it’s a good fixture heading into a northern tour.
ne too. we (and every other top side) should play more nations of this level rather than just big money fixtures.
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@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Crucial said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@antipodean I am actually very surprised how narrow your view is.
It's professional sport. Finances matter.
Yes, value is financial and, as mentioned, the numbers have been calculated and don’t support your argument. The women’s game brings in more money than it spends.
Show me the data.
We are both talking about finances. Sponsors put in money because they see benefits. They see benefits to themselves in supporting the game as a whole, including the womens game. If the womens game wasn't there they wouldn't see as much benefit.
I dont know how much clearer I can make it.The irony here is I'm feeling you're being deliberately obtuse. Sponsorship implies a positive return from association with a brand. If that return isn't financial (advertising outlay for the same exposure, purchasing of products by fans etc.) then it's ESG related - warm and fuzzies.
The data isn't released publically. I am going of statements by Rob Nicholl.
Then I'm sceptical based on real world examples practically everywhere else.
"Warm and Fuzzies" and "Financial Return" are not mutually exclusive.
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@antipodean said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@kiwiinmelb said in Who are you watching as priority?:
@Frank said in Who are you watching as priority?:
Women's rugby sucks and no amount of marketing BS will convince me otherwise.
Here in Australia they play a womens version of afl ,
I find that one to be the worst of the womens football codes , the skills required to play that game seem to be more difficult for them to master .
There's too many teams in the AFLW, which dilutes the talent and its value as a sporting spectacle. This is most noticeable when a team can't score a single goal in the entire match.
Case in point:
- Crows vs Giants. Giants scored a single solitary behind and were thumped 97 - 1.
- Kangaroos vs Swans. Swans matched the Giants' scoring prowess. And got beaten by 68 points.
- Power vs Crows. Power scored three behinds to lose by 60.
my view is that the AFL size field is just too big for the women. They aren't quick enough, nor can they kick far enough. Make the field smaller and i think the game gets better
There are some great female athletes playing. But not enough, and even then...
i still fucking love Orla O'Dwyer though
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