Highlanders 2023
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Having had time to think about it and calm down from the disappointment, I don't necessarily think the Highlanders will be far away as some are suggesting.
Still have a good pack, with plenty of depth so no real issues there.
Is the backline underwhelming? Absolutely, but if we get our top side on the park, maybe something along the lines of:
de Groot, Marshall, Ainsley, Dickson, Parkinson, Frizell, Harmon, Mikaele-Tu'u, Smith, Hunt/Millar, Nareki, Umaga-Jensen, Timu, Lowe, Gilbert
Reserves: Makalio, Lienert-Brown, Ma'u, Holland, Broughton, Fakatava/Arscott, Gregory, Garden-Bachop
I think people will be surprised. Injuries have obviously been an issue in the past with this bunch, and it remains a concern, but at least our tough fixtures are largely front-loaded, in theory coming before our players inevitably get injured.
Also, don't underestimate the advantage of having everyone pulling in the same direction. Reckon Dermody is a shrewd operator, and he has surrounded himself with some intriguing appointments. With a bit of luck, we will win those close games we lost last year. This squad isn't worse, it just isn't much better which is the disappointing thing... Dermody took a squad that was if anything worse than this bunch to the Super Rugby Trans- Ta$man final just a couple of years ago, and we very nearly got the job done in that final.
And, as much as many don't like the sight of Gregory, Paea and Dawai etc. you are better off sticking with and working with what you already have than bringing in another guy who is never going to be any good, such as a Tei Walden or Jared Page.
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I still think that a youth and talent identification process is the way out of this spiral.
Can't tell me that their aren't young players that would like to accelerate their status rather than hang around a top franchise for a couple of years.
Yes he's a CM player, but where are players like Riley Hohepa? Pretty sure you lot could find some gems among the CMs, Northlands, BoPs etc that haven't been snagged.
Give it a shot. You know that players like Banks and Hunt are only going to stay average. Better to roll the dice I reckon.Edit: I do wonder though if there is a need for a draft of sorts. Too many stacked teams around and signings of earmarked players way before their time to lock them in. A bit of a redistribution of talent is needed for 5 decent franchise teams.
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@Crucial Totally disagree. Only one maybe is Inga Finau... the fact is once you start scraping the bottom of the barrel, it doesn't matter anyway. To suggest Hohepa is better than Hunt is straight up laughable.
This is the whole notion that the answer to the problem is always the player not picked/not playing. Highlanders were certainly in for Moses Leo, I had also heard that, so no idea what happened there. If I was to guess, rather than talent ID, the issue was that the culture hit rock bottom, so the players didn't want to come.
You can't force players to come...
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@friedrugby Havent checked all the squads but if Inga Finau still around, he will be a good pick up for some one. One of the consistent players in the Bay backline before injury. We were consistent in the forwards all NPC but backs were hit and miss except for a few and he was one of the good ones.
Nikora Broughton who you did pick up is young mobile and has an edge and a great mix to your pack. Think Dermody will like his aggressiveness and might be able to get more from him too
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maybe the new coaching team will get something new out of these guys
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@KiwiMurph TIKOISOLOMONE? good point, made the point earlier in the year saying he was one for the future
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Of course I think you should be able to stop teams from hoarding talent. Break it down, these guys work for NZ Rugby(even under some weird franchise ownership model). NZ Rugby has a responsibility to its stakeholders to sell the best product, with the best players on the field each week. At the moment we have young players turning down regular playing gigs to be apart of top teams to play club rugby. We are sending these guys away in our national high performance programmes. It simply is not good enough from a national perspective. It flows down to a bit of a tough shit situation. You can't hoard players. Even if it is down to initial good management. We have a team in the Highlanders which is miles behind the rest. It makes NZ Rugby look weak when the Highlanders are battling in the lower level dross. This isn't just me whinging as a Highlanders fan. It is looking at how negative this is for NZ rugby as a whole. When the best teams third string player would start for the worst team. Something is wrong.
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@SouthernMann This might also be a problem with having 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin. There must be players who do not want to be that far from their friends and families, especially when that is the bottom team.
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i mean, we made the 2020 Ta$man final with alot of these guys so we've definitely had much worse squads....id say injuries and keeping the best players on the pitch has been a bigger problem then the actual skill level
I find the idea players dont want to live away from home baffling although obviously have to accept it...but every one of my friends left "home" after high school, some over seas, some just elsewhere in NZ for uni and the overseas...we really have a problem if players ligitimately cant be lured to dunners to play sport for a living in one of if not the best grounds in the country even for half a year
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@Kiwiwomble Coaching (including selections) may also have been an issue. If you look at who are now in the Highlanders coaching group, I think there's reason for optimism.
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@Tim said in Highlanders 2023:
@SouthernMann This might also be a problem with having 20% of the pro contracts in Dunedin. There must be players who do not want to be that far from their friends and families, especially when that is the bottom team.
That is an argument that gets trotted out regularly. Yet, they have no issues going overseas to Japan or France. Or, if they aren't able to pick and choose they often end up playing provincial rugby in Manawatu, New Plymouth, Southland or Super Rugby in Dunedin. This is not Perth to Sydney. It is a 90 minute plane ride to Auckland.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
going overseas to Japan or France
There's a lot more money there, and a lot more excitement. A lot of players are from the central North Island, and Southland always struggle for players.
Just from a commercial perspective, it's insane to have 40% of the teams in the South Island.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
Of course I think you should be able to stop teams from hoarding talent. Break it down, these guys work for NZ Rugby(even under some weird franchise ownership model). NZ Rugby has a responsibility to its stakeholders to sell the best product, with the best players on the field each week. At the moment we have young players turning down regular playing gigs to be apart of top teams to play club rugby. We are sending these guys away in our national high performance programmes. It simply is not good enough from a national perspective. It flows down to a bit of a tough shit situation. You can't hoard players. Even if it is down to initial good management. We have a team in the Highlanders which is miles behind the rest. It makes NZ Rugby look weak when the Highlanders are battling in the lower level dross. This isn't just me whinging as a Highlanders fan. It is looking at how negative this is for NZ rugby as a whole. When the best teams third string player would start for the worst team. Something is wrong.
I think Highlanders benefited from some pretty poorly run organisations up until the last few years.
Speaking as a Blues fan The Blues were an absolute basketcase with a) letting local players go and b) because they were a basketcase players didn't want to hang around.
If the Blues were still a clown show the Likes of Lam, Kneepkens, Rush etc would be at the Highlanders and journeyman would be at the Blues instead (think Sam Prattley, Chris Noakes etc).
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@Tim said in Highlanders 2023:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2023:
going overseas to Japan or France
There's a lot more money there, and a lot more excitement. A lot of players are from the central North Island, and Southland always struggle for players.
Just from a commercial perspective, it's insane to have 40% of the teams in the South Island.
The early doors of my working career I worked in New plymouth, Rotorua, Christchurch, Auckland, Rolleston, Invercargill. You do what your company tells you. Rugby is a commodity. You are right commercially it makes no sense to have teams all over the country. We should have two in Auckland, one in Hamilton, Wellington and the SI. But we do need to make top quality rugby visible. Dunedin also currently has the best rugby stadium in the country. In terms of excitement. If I was a good looking 20 year old bloke. Dunedin has a lot of advantages.
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in Highlanders 2023:
@cgrant Mcclea as Injury cover possibly?although they'll probably look for a hb with more first class experience
Hastie will be the likely injury cover, as he is the halfback signed to replace Smith in 2024 and should be clear of injury by then. Faleafaga's job over the next nine months is to have a top quality club season and to get regular game time for Otago. He hasn't even got on the paddock for them yet. The Otago/Highlanders swt up also needs to work out how it wants to work around both him and Millar. The question for the franchise is, how does it position itself as a opportunity rich destination to get quality players in. Identify where its gaps are in two to three years time and go to market looking to fill those gaps. It has eight years + of de Groot as a starting prop, but who backs him up in the future. It has identified Jack Taylor and Henry Bell as its long-term hookers, but who fills out that group. Locks are developing nicely. Loosies with the likes of Withy, Michaels, Haig, Broughton, Tu'u have time on their side. The backs are the real problem. Otago/Highlanders had an opportunity to get Hotham, they kept their blinkers on and went with Arscott and Hastie. Modern Super Rugby isn't going to throw up diamonds like it did a decade ago. We need to admit this and focus on strong planning. Look at the squad with a 2025 + lens and identify the holes start planning to plug them with kids still in school or just out. The frustration is we see very few talented players leak out of other franchises, yet the Highlanders miss out on generational players like George Bell. A quality programme wouldn't let that happen.
