All Blacks XV 2022
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@Nepia see Aumua has more right to be an AB than say Reece, and players who follow the path Reece, PGS et al have taken, is not ideal IMO, but these guys are adults and can make thier own decisions, although again you'd hope someone is giving them advice in that regard, although at that level, these guys must believe in thier ability and know that of others to the point they believe they can become a multi test AB than just a few?
Reece has played way more than I expected him to!
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@Nepia no one thought PGS was going to become a 100 test AB, at absolute best he was picked on current form but even then he didnt start and hasn't been seen since, definitely seems like a "just in case" kind of situation
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia see Aumua has more right to be an AB than say Reece
If you are available for selection it is because you have made yourself so.
No one available for selection has a greater “right” than others. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia no one thought PGS was going to become a 100 test AB, at absolute best he was picked on current form but even then he didnt start and hasn't been seen since, definitely seems like a "just in case" kind of situation
I agree with @Nepia that players aren’t selected with a view to lock them in. They are selected because they are available to be and because the selectors think they will serve a purpose.
There’s no conspiracy here. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia no one thought PGS was going to become a 100 test AB, at absolute best he was picked on current form but even then he didnt start and hasn't been seen since, definitely seems like a "just in case" kind of situation
That's just a poor selection. We didn't need to lock in a loose forward just in case, we pump them out frequently and there's a number of non AB loosies floating around who could have had that same punt taken on them.
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@Crucial i dont think its a conspiracy, no one is doing things in secret or underhand
I just dont think every single player we've capped had the potential to be a great and were selected as you say to serve a purpose, some obviously have little chance of started ahead of others in the position...so they have a certain extent of "just in case about them"
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Crucial i dont think its a conspiracy, no one is doing things in secret or underhand
I just dont think every single player we've capped had the potential to be a great and were selected as you say to serve a purpose, some obviously have little chance of started ahead of others in the position...so they have a certain extent of "just in case about them"
I may be reading it wrong but back a few posts you suggested that some players were being selected to lock them in “just in case”.
I agree that some are selected with view of introducing them to higher levels just in case, but not to lock them in -
@Crucial feels like semantics now, yeah, i think some people are selected "just in case" as in building depth. and some times that depth goes past the obvious selections, i feel in the past the 4th or 5th choice or a bolter for a position was normally someone young so you were developing long term talent...but now it feels like we are just as likely to see a 28 year old come out of the blue...they cant be seen as a long term option
using PGS again as the example...it wasn;t a mistake, they didnt select him as an accident, he was chosen to at most play 20min, in the past i think we would have had someone younger come on to play 10 minute bursts and you could legitimately say they were selected with the potential to go on and play more.
So yeah, sometime i think they freak out that we might not have the depth they want and so they pick people just in case that depth is needed
im probably not wording it right, its not a conspiracy or underhanded, but my original point, theyre not telling 28 year olds they dont have a shot, because they want everyone to hold out for their shot at the best rugby team in history...just in case their needed
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Crucial feels like semantics now, yeah, i think some people are selected "just in case" as in building depth. and some times that depth goes past the obvious selections, i feel in the past the 4th or 5th choice or a bolter for a position was normally someone young so you were developing long term talent...but now it feels like we are just as likely to see a 28 year old come out of the blue...they cant be seen as a long term option
using PGS again as the example...it wasn;t a mistake, they didnt select him as an accident, he was chosen to at most play 20min, in the past i think we would have had someone younger come on to play 10 minute bursts and you could legitimately say they were selected with the potential to go on and play more.
So yeah, sometime i think they freak out that we might not have the depth they want and so they pick people just in case that depth is needed
im probably not wording it right, its not a conspiracy or underhanded, but my original point, theyre not telling 28 year olds they dont have a shot, because they want everyone to hold out for their shot at the best rugby team in history...just in case their needed
I don’t have an argument with any of that and won’t accuse you of backtracking. Just thought the the discussion had veered into the use of selection to deliberately lock in players with other options. Apologies if I concluded incorrectly
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@Crucial you know thats not how I was meaning it.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:
It's up to the players to make that personal decision, and you would hope that Aumua is getting the right advice from his agent etc. There are a number of midfielders ahead of him before he would get anywhere near the ABs.
I think a lot of us forget, that many players that have turned out for Samoa haven't got paid or waited a fair while to get any. I think perhaps his agent could just be advising him to hang off until he sees how wind blows.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@Crucial you know thats not how I was meaning it.
Hey, it was your words!
If that’s not what you meant that’s great but don’t blame me for what you wrote.
As I have told the missus for decades, I’m not a mind reader. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Crucial feels like semantics now, yeah, i think some people are selected "just in case" as in building depth. and some times that depth goes past the obvious selections, i feel in the past the 4th or 5th choice or a bolter for a position was normally someone young so you were developing long term talent...but now it feels like we are just as likely to see a 28 year old come out of the blue...they cant be seen as a long term option
using PGS again as the example...it wasn;t a mistake, they didnt select him as an accident, he was chosen to at most play 20min, in the past i think we would have had someone younger come on to play 10 minute bursts and you could legitimately say they were selected with the potential to go on and play more.
On PGS has anyone heard much on the rumour, he perhaps played up a bit at training, and perhaps may have a lot to do with not making even AB XV
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks XV:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks XV:
@Crucial feels like semantics now, yeah, i think some people are selected "just in case" as in building depth. and some times that depth goes past the obvious selections, i feel in the past the 4th or 5th choice or a bolter for a position was normally someone young so you were developing long term talent...but now it feels like we are just as likely to see a 28 year old come out of the blue...they cant be seen as a long term option
using PGS again as the example...it wasn;t a mistake, they didnt select him as an accident, he was chosen to at most play 20min, in the past i think we would have had someone younger come on to play 10 minute bursts and you could legitimately say they were selected with the potential to go on and play more.
On PGS has anyone heard much on the rumour, he perhaps played up a bit at training, and perhaps may have a lot to do with not making even AB XV
It was mentioned in a press article that there were some minor indiscretions when in camp but it was also stated that they had no impact on his selections (or not). That’s all I have heard.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:
Drummond, of course.
On form, I'd pick Roe over Ratima. He would also offer something different to TJP and Roigard.
On NPC season form I’d agree. I thought that Ratima played much better after a while though.
What I like about Ratima is that when on song he brings a more robust game. The ABs obviously prefer a certain style though and Roe fits that better -
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
Not Willi Heinz? Thought they would rush him in. I think Ratima became a bit hesitant this season but improved at the end. I think Roe has best kicking game in nz for a 9 but do admit he could be more robust.
Hasn't he played for England?
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