Foster, Robertson etc
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
Just because one head coach has fuck all impact now new assistants have been forced on him, does not mean all head coaches do nothing.
I'm not saying I totally agree, but it's not weird. Foster is an ineffective head coach, and his team shit as an abs team ever had been. But now he's been forced to move away from his choices as assistants, the abs are improving.
Sorry, but it's incredibly weird thinking to say a head coach has no impact on results and in the same breath argue a new Head Coach will improve things.
Peter De Villiers as Boks coach (2008-2011) - it was well known that he couldn't coach for shit & the assistants did essentially all the coaching for him. Foster appears much the same.
De Villiers started out OK and the Boks faded badly in 2010-11. So if you are saying his assistants did all the work, you're arguing De Villiers wasn't to blame for those latter poor results either, and his assistants should have carried the can.
Which is a bonkers argument when you look at it.
Not really. Even the players admitted that the assistants Gary Gold and Dick Muir were ultimately responsible for the success of that era & said De Villiers was pretty useless as a coach.
Every different to Foster then when you consider the high praise he gets from players like Ritchie, Ardie and Sam Whitelock.
Tbf, Mark "never made the playoffs despite having absolute power" Hammett seemed to have plenty of love from the players he didn't send packing.
I've no doubt that perhaps one-on-one Foster has plenty of wisdom to impart. He was a decent player himself and rose through the coaching ranks very quickly. Clearly he has something of value. Unfortunately it's patently obvious that he's not a very good head coach. The evidence obviously being the Chiefs and ABs. If I can give him credit for something it's having at least been humble enough to accept the changes that clearly needed to be made. While they came very belatedly and allowed him to save his job, many would probably have gone the full bottom lip and had a tanty. Maybe he does that in private but I for one feel a hell of alot better with Schmidt and Ryan holding his hand. It's a pretty ridiculous situation but probably the best outcome before handing over to Razor for fresh start (hopefully 🤞) after the RWC.
May be. But it's got bugger-all to do with the ludicrous idea that when the AB's lose or the forwards play like shit, Foster, as Head Coach, should take the blame, but when they win, it's all down to the assistants and nothing to do with the Head Coach.
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@Damo That has kind of been a recuring theme of some of our performance over the last couple of years, even before the last World Cup we were like that. The only real shift this year is that thanks to Jason Ryan our forwards are looking a whole lot better.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.Good opportunity for him to get some much-needed international experience at senior level.
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Meldrew appears to be one of them.
No mate, I try not to see things in black and white, look at the facts, analyse the best I can, try to be consistent and come up with hopefully logical conclusions.
Unlike those who blame the Head Coach for poor AB performances but when things go well say it's nothing to do with the Head Coach. Or argue we need a new Head Coach but, when we win the RC, then argue a Head Coach has little impact on winning or losing.
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This place lurches from one extreme to the other.
That was a good AB performance but let's not get carried away.
For one thing we always flog Aussie at Eden Park. For another, this team had yet to string together 2 good performances all year.
Let's just hold our horses and wait and see how we go on the NH tour.
2 outcomes are on the cards I reckon.
Either we have finally turned a corner and will have a good tour.
OR we have mixed results, look good one week and dreadful.the next.
There's improvement but still too much inconsistency and dumb stuff like giving away penalties when on attack.
On the plus side (and I think it's a big plus) the on-field attitude and leadership has improved beyond measure - the headless chicken, "what the fuck do we do now" stuff seems to have largely vanished.
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@Kruse your reply tells me you embrace mediocrity.
Wow. You're continuing to argue with an imaginary friend/enemy.
Just... enjoy it, I guess.
I do feel jealous sometimes, of people with that level of "bliss", as the saying goes.And yeah... Mediocrity. Lovely lass. Tit-watch: 2.... Largish, but slightly saggy.
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
@Kruse your reply tells me you embrace mediocrity.
embrace it? I am constantly striving for it!
We literally have a poster by our desks at work which says Striving for Mediocrity
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@Victor-Meldrew well most noticed before it was too late, just not the right people....
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew well most noticed before it was too late, just not the right people....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.Good opportunity for him to get some much-needed international experience at senior level.
Only two coaches in the history of the ABs have had international experience before being appointed. Both of them coached Wales. Both left with less than stellar records there. Prior to Henry and Hansen, ABs' coaches were chosen on the basis of their coaching success within NZ. The claim that potential coaches need overseas experience is simply nonsense, usually peddled by those with an anti-Robertson bias.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.Good opportunity for him to get some much-needed international experience at senior level.
Only two coaches in the history of the ABs have had international experience before being appointed. Both of them coached Wales. Both left with less than stellar records there. Prior to Henry and Hansen, ABs' coaches were chosen on the basis of their coaching success within NZ. The claim that potential coaches need overseas experience is simply nonsense, usually peddled by those with an anti-Robertson bias.
Wouldn't that indicate that international experience prior to their ABs stint served them well?
Without South Africa or Argie in Super Rugby anymore this sort of exposure is good for the development of both Leon and Razor as coaches.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
Only two coaches in the history of the ABs have had international experience before being appointed.
And they are the only two coaches in the history of the ABs to win World Cups in the professional era.
The claim that potential coaches need overseas experience is simply nonsense.
No, it's a logical and sensible view which NZR seem to hold. It may not always be the correct view and it's open to criticism, but it is anything but a nonsensical one. (Personally, I find the idea that NZ rugby coaches are so good they won't benefit much from international experience arrogant in the extreme)
usually peddled by those with an anti-Robertson bias.
Get a grip. Just because people don't buy into the "Robertson is the Savior and/or the Greatest Rugby Coach in the World" fetish, doesn't mean they have an anti-Robertson bias.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
Just because one head coach has fuck all impact now new assistants have been forced on him, does not mean all head coaches do nothing.
I'm not saying I totally agree, but it's not weird. Foster is an ineffective head coach, and his team shit as an abs team ever had been. But now he's been forced to move away from his choices as assistants, the abs are improving.
Sorry, but it's incredibly weird thinking to say a head coach has no impact on results and in the same breath argue a new Head Coach will improve things.
Peter De Villiers as Boks coach (2008-2011) - it was well known that he couldn't coach for shit & the assistants did essentially all the coaching for him. Foster appears much the same.
De Villiers started out OK and the Boks faded badly in 2010-11. So if you are saying his assistants did all the work, you're arguing De Villiers wasn't to blame for those latter poor results either, and his assistants should have carried the can.
Which is a bonkers argument when you look at it.
Not really. Even the players admitted that the assistants Gary Gold and Dick Muir were ultimately responsible for the success of that era & said De Villiers was pretty useless as a coach.
Every different to Foster then when you consider the high praise he gets from players like Ritchie, Ardie and Sam Whitelock.
Tbf, Mark "never made the playoffs despite having absolute power" Hammett seemed to have plenty of love from the players he didn't send packing.
I've no doubt that perhaps one-on-one Foster has plenty of wisdom to impart. He was a decent player himself and rose through the coaching ranks very quickly. Clearly he has something of value. Unfortunately it's patently obvious that he's not a very good head coach. The evidence obviously being the Chiefs and ABs. If I can give him credit for something it's having at least been humble enough to accept the changes that clearly needed to be made. While they came very belatedly and allowed him to save his job, many would probably have gone the full bottom lip and had a tanty. Maybe he does that in private but I for one feel a hell of alot better with Schmidt and Ryan holding his hand. It's a pretty ridiculous situation but probably the best outcome before handing over to Razor for fresh start (hopefully 🤞) after the RWC.
May be. But it's got bugger-all to do with the ludicrous idea that when the AB's lose or the forwards play like shit, Foster, as Head Coach, should take the blame, but when they win, it's all down to the assistants and nothing to do with the Head Coach.
Moar and Plum were the scapegoats post Ireland. Ryan and Schmidt get the plaudits. Foster has a 5/4 win ratio this year and by all accounts is still on tract to list 2 of 4 on the EOYT which, in itself, will be another record.
