Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance
Couldn't they be linked?
A lot has been personnel.
The props have been changed out, the number one hooker, the 10, the 12, Bridge....the assistants.
All examples where he hung on too long. Admittedly you can see the idea. Sometimes it works. The locks were being called as ready for pasture earlier in the year, Will Jordan went through a half dozen matches were he looked like he was making up the numbers, Havili got better and better but like Joseph Parker his ceiling has been established.
Some has been the coaching. Good forwards looked rubbish, the attack over thought and destined to fail.
I'm not absolving Foster entirely. Even the bits from his assistants he held the final say on.
In the last regime his actual technical coaching, especially in the backs was well appreciated by the players and they played well. I think we can see that happening again now he can concentrate there with decent support in the other areas. -
NZRU might need to extend the trophy cabinet if Foster keeps securing silverware at this rate.
Going purely on results - if Fozzie had won one more against Ireland and beaten Argentina, I think most people would have been happy enough with the results this season in isolation.
2-1 vs Ireland and a shared series in SA vs the World Champions would have been acceptable.
The defeats coming on the back of the EOYT losses - and especially the manner of some of them where we were significantly outplayed put the cat among the pigeons.
I think we're definitely better for the coaching changes, but we've got a way to go before we're anything but outsiders for RWC.
Yes defeats when it never even looks like we're in with a chance of winning are foreign to AB fans of the last 2 decades. We usually lose because we run out of time, not because actually beaten! But in the last couple of seasons we've been beaten, fair and square!
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Not a huge Foster fan but i'll give him credit in that the backs have improved since he's been more involved with them after Moaar got punted.
In addition he managed to get Schmidt and Ryan on board.
The last two home games of the season we've won a combined 93-17.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
I might be getting confused with all the chopping and changing but didn't Foster take over the attack?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
I might be getting confused with all the chopping and changing but didn't Foster take over the attack?
Only for SA, Schmidt took over from the Argies tests and Foster stepped back again.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
I might be getting confused with all the chopping and changing but didn't Foster take over the attack?
Only for SA, Schmidt took over from the Argies tests and Foster stepped back again.
Last night they stopped all the back door passing and putting the loosies in the mix two out. It was very different.
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[link text](link url) @Crucial https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2022/08/rugby-how-new-assistant-coach-joe-schmidt-can-help-transform-all-blacks.html
from this article "Last week, Schmidt was officially promoted from his role as selector to assistant coach for the All Blacks, where he'll be primarily tasked with overseeing the team's attack".
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Foster has done jack all. Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Foster has done jack all. Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Fact or opinion?
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I'm not white knighting Fozzie but we do have a tendency to overrate assistants in comparison with head coaches in NZ if it suits our belief system.
Two examples, Rennie and Smith. Smith gets outsize credit for the Chiefs wins (and not the same amount of blame for the non wins) and if you've been to a speaking engagement with him he'll point out he was definitely the assistant (and as we all know he was not a confident head coach - also he was a shit provincial CEO as well, but that's another story). The other is Peter Russell and Tom Coventry for the Magpies. Coventry, who is and was a great forward coach started getting outsize credit for the success of that era of Magpies. We haven't had to worry about that with our current coach who was the assistant - the previous coach Ozich definitely deserved the credit.
Maybe, Ryan and Schmidt are just better at implementing Fozzies strategies than Plumtree and the other bloke were?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Foster has done jack all. Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Fact or opinion?
Facts bro. The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better. And let's not get started on the pathetic replacement strategy run by Foster.
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I'm not white knighting Fozzie but we do have a tendency to overrate assistants in comparison with head coaches in NZ if it suits our belief system.
Two examples, Rennie and Smith. Smith gets outsize credit for the Chiefs wins (and not the same amount of blame for the non wins) and if you've been to a speaking engagement with him he'll point out he was definitely the assistant (and as we all know he was not a confident head coach - also he was a shit provincial CEO as well, but that's another story). The other is Peter Russell and Tom Coventry for the Magpies. Coventry, who is and was a great forward coach started getting outsize credit for the success of that era of Magpies. We haven't had to worry about that with our current coach who was the assistant - the previous coach Ozich definitely deserved the credit.
Maybe, Ryan and Schmidt are just better at implementing Fozzies strategies than Plumtree and the other bloke were?
Implementing Fozzies strategies???? Nepia what the hell are you on???
He lacks strategy.
Coventry worked wonders at the Chiefs and has continued at the Blues.
Fozzies is fronting for the Media, Schmidt and Ryan are Coaching. Real obvious mate. -
This post is deleted!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
You can't have it both ways and argue the Head Coach takes the blame when things go wrong, and then argue he can't take any credit when things go well.
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The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
Just because one head coach has fuck all impact now new assistants have been forced on him, does not mean all head coaches do nothing.
I'm not saying I totally agree, but it's not weird. Foster is an ineffective head coach, and his team shit as an abs team ever had been. But now he's been forced to move away from his choices as assistants, the abs are improving.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Even great AB sides put in poor performances. Most of the time they would still win though!
5 wins out of the last 11 is not too hot in my book.
It's the direction that's important and what we've seen in the last 4-5 games it's a team which has completely transformed itself from the rabble that was Ireland 2 & 3.
Long way to go, but the omens are way, way better than they were a few months back.
Changing coaching seems to have worked then,I wonder how better we would have been if Foster had gone as well,The assistants seem to be turning it around not the HC.
I have a slightly different view.
Foster's biggest failing hasn't been his coaching ability it has been his loyalty/determination to fix underperformance by giving more chances than he should. That's been at player and coach level. I guess that's his nature.
When his hand is forced (even Sami T coming into the squad last year) he does a pretty good job of making things work in his area.
All the praise toward the backs from last night is being heaped on the players but it was Foster that took what he saw last week and gave them a totally different plan than we have seen recently to make the most of their talents.
He gets there in the end. Just wish that the journey didn't have so many wrong turns and dead ends.Was it Foster who did that or Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Foster has done jack all. Schmidt with the backs and Ryan with the forwards.
Fact or opinion?
Facts bro. The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better. And let's not get started on the pathetic replacement strategy run by Foster.
You don't seem to understand the words "facts" nor "opinion".
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Will Jordan went through a half dozen matches were he looked like he was making up the numbers.
To be honest, I reckon this is just fern mythology promoted by a couple of "influencers" that a bunch of people have bought into.
Will didn't play the first Ireland test - he had covid.
Second test he came off the bench for 30 minutes. ESPN stats show we made three line-breaks in that game - Will made two and George Bower made the other. He also scored a try that may or may not have been one of his line breaks - my memory is that it was a 30 metre run from a long Mo'unga pass that didn't involve a linebreak. His 30-minute ESPN stats compare pretty favourably with those for Leicester and Sevu!
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=595443&league=289234
Ireland 3 - Well, here's Will making up the numbers....
Dan reckons that was pretty much all he did, but his ESPN stats are again way better than Sevu's (or Rieko's for that matter).
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=595444&league=289234
Boks I I think he had probably his worst game in black, so I'm not going to argue that.
Australia I I have already debunked the bollocks that he was poor (other than the obvious Samu tackle) and am happy to further debate with anyone willing to put in the effort to re-watch.
I shall do some further review on Boks II and the two Argentine tests in due course, but for all I was quite surprised to watch the games and then read the Fern's assessment of Will's efforts.
