Bledisloe 1
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@sparky said in Bledisloe 1:
@antipodean The referee could have given them a bit more time for the penalty. But once he's warned the players about time-wasting, it's really dumb of Foley not to take the penalty more quickly.
Obvious coaching point "Listen to the ref."
His team mates heard it.....
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@Stargazer said in Bledisloe 1:
The final 6:39 minutes of the game:
That's a helluva lot easier/more-enjoyable watch when I already know the ending.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@Derpus said in Bledisloe 1:
What's the point in the Bledisloe when the vastly superior team gets awarded a win in a rare off year by the rarest of debatable technicalities.
No wonder League is poaching all of the Aus and increasingly, NZ talent.
You've never ever seen a ref pull up time wasting before? Can't have watched much code.
The crowd knew it was obvious time wasting, so did your other players. I totally get that the consequences were a bitch and I'd be annoyed as well but it wasn't the ref's fault. I even believe that Foley didn't hear 'time on' or expected the ref to manage it a different way but that is on him and his awareness.
I've not seen a ref do it to a ten for not being quick enough with a penalty kick. I'd love to see another example
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@Derpus said in Bledisloe 1:
@antipodean you certainly don't seem like the kind of bloke who is ever happy, let's be honest eh.
Fuck I love irony.
Intentional, un-intentional - it's just a delight. -
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial unfortunately he does drift with indecision and then he shoots out of the line to try and make up for it. It was actually surprising to watch live how exposed he got himself on at least two occasions.
Hopefully he can work on that.
Interesting to hear that live perspective. On camera all you see is the act which looks deliberate.
Maybe it is the defensive plan but his indecision is causing the failure. I do think it is a dumb idea but, as I mentioned in another post, it is a flavour of the moment for a lot of coaches at the moment.
I won't mention searchable names here but I do know of one FPC team that is definitely employing this theory. I know because I have questioned an affected player and asked why they are shooting in on an angle and leaving the outside and the have explained that is what the coach is telling them to do. Then I have seen it in other games. I'm putting two and two together here and giving Clarke the benefit of doubt but I will also temper that with knowledge that he is hesitant.
Probably because it is so stupid a theory that it doesn't come instinctively
Jordan's doing similar on the other side as well at times. Against the Irish several times he came in to take the "Centre" leaving the wider man free and for Jordie as a second line if he failed to shut things down.
Mapimpi's try in Boks II was something similar - he clearly came charging infield and left Mapimpi unmarked for a wide pass if they could execute it (which they did).
I guess it's some sort of Umbrella defence, but I don't like it either.
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial unfortunately he does drift with indecision and then he shoots out of the line to try and make up for it. It was actually surprising to watch live how exposed he got himself on at least two occasions.
Hopefully he can work on that.
Interesting to hear that live perspective. On camera all you see is the act which looks deliberate.
Maybe it is the defensive plan but his indecision is causing the failure. I do think it is a dumb idea but, as I mentioned in another post, it is a flavour of the moment for a lot of coaches at the moment.
I won't mention searchable names here but I do know of one FPC team that is definitely employing this theory. I know because I have questioned an affected player and asked why they are shooting in on an angle and leaving the outside and the have explained that is what the coach is telling them to do. Then I have seen it in other games. I'm putting two and two together here and giving Clarke the benefit of doubt but I will also temper that with knowledge that he is hesitant.
Probably because it is so stupid a theory that it doesn't come instinctivelyJordan's doing similar on the other side as well at times. Against the Irish several times he came in to take the "Centre" leaving the wider man free and for Jordie as a second line if he failed to shut things down.
Mapimpi's try in Boks II was something similar - he clearly came charging infield and left Mapimpi unmarked for a wide pass if they could execute it (which they did).
I guess it's some sort of Umbrella defence, but I don't like it either.
McLEOD OUT
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The other one I don't understand is when the opposition has a wing clearly set wide for a cross kick, but his opposing winger is standing well infield with no chance of contesting or saving the try if the opposition can execute the cross kick.
Maybe some moneyball statistician has crunched the numbers and tempting the cross kick is a great option to waste an attacking position - but, the defending wing certainly looks like a fluffybunny when it comes off.
I haven't re-looked at the cross-kick to Clarke last night, but I'd be less surprised if the moneyball odds on a cross-kick in your own 22 were particularly good.
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@Machpants said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@Derpus said in Bledisloe 1:
What's the point in the Bledisloe when the vastly superior team gets awarded a win in a rare off year by the rarest of debatable technicalities.
No wonder League is poaching all of the Aus and increasingly, NZ talent.
You've never ever seen a ref pull up time wasting before? Can't have watched much code.
The crowd knew it was obvious time wasting, so did your other players. I totally get that the consequences were a bitch and I'd be annoyed as well but it wasn't the ref's fault. I even believe that Foley didn't hear 'time on' or expected the ref to manage it a different way but that is on him and his awareness.
I've not seen a ref do it to a ten for not being quick enough with a penalty kick. I'd love to see another example
The point is that refs will blow for time wasting (usually with a warning first). Doesn’t matter how it happens.
You don’t often see it called from a penalty kick for touch as players hardly ever waste time in that play. They usually push as far as the ref reacts then the team moves as slowly as they can get away with to the lineout.
That would have been the smart option as you get two bites at delaying the play. -
@Chris-B we nailed at least 2 maybe 3 crossfields last night. It’s the new normal I guess and looks to be well trained. And given defensive systems it’s not a bad ploy
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@antipodean said in Bledisloe 1:
I'm not entirely convinced Foley was trying to waste time after the ref blew time back on. He looked more to be waiting for his forward pack to get out of their huddle and be paying attention after the ref blew time off. Still, he should have realized the ref wasn't going to be patient after telling them to hurry up.
There definitely was time wasting but it's a bit hard to tell how egregious it was when the footage is mostly just replays and close ups of random players.
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@ACT-Crusader Yeah - the point I'm more interested in is why the defending wing often seems not to be marking an attacking wing who's stationed for a cross-kick. On attack, at international level, I'd back a five eighth to execute that kick more often than not.
But, I don't believe it's that the wing has gone to sleep because it's under 11s stuff to watch what your opposing wing is doing. It's got to be a ploy, but I don't understand it.
Don't really like the cross kick option inside our 22 - nor chip kicks, nor bombs in that zone. Kick deep, chase hard.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe 1:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe 1:
@mariner4life go back and read the thread, people bitching about DP and HS.
Just saying they come in cold, and get grilled.
Well there needs to be development, don't expect weekly changes, but they can still develop without doing that.
What has happened this year is the result of 2+ years of ignoring issues in front of you.
i think we are also a victim of our structure. Basically, from mid-June, if you are not playing in a test, you have nothing meaningful to play. And with all due respect, NPC rugby is a glorified club game compared to test rugby.
So basically the first choice guys play, everyone else goes cold.
Still think we are allowed to say they were average because they were. The reasons for that are of course arguable - not enough game time, experience at test level, their opposites were better etc. DP has had a couple of goes now and hasn’t shown out on either occasion. Sotutu’s first chance. It’s not the end for them, but not in favour of sharing AB jerseys around - esp. when the team is struggling. They can earn them - impressing at training, injuries, playing well at NPC. Their performance doesn’t help.
If NPC is glorified club rugby, then RTS should be no where near the AB squad.
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@Chris-B you can only assume they're backing themselves to cover that ground while the kick is in the air. Perhaps even encouraging it to potentially isolate the wide player. And if they don't kick, they're there as an extra body in the midfield.
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After reading this thread before watching
- Wasnt a bad game at all, great entertainment and drama
- Swain is a fluffybunny, if he gets less than 6 weeks for that, it is a joke
- Our defence is still pretty shite, just everything about it, alignment, narrow, staggered, gaps, no cohesion...I love watching the Irish d line which work as one
- Rough YC on the Wobbly 9 for pulling down maul, I dont think they even tripped over him
- After receiving the crosskick, CC shaped to kick, with probably the fastest guy on the field at full speed, took it to deck, lost control...nek minut Aus score, huge moment of indecision was quite costly
- We did some good stuff, had nice structure and played with accuracy and pace at times, but just cant maintain it
- Final play...well, wouldnt be a test match with a Frenchie in charge if there wasnt a penalty for tackling a player hurdling someone, a deal or something unusual!
If this is a precursor for WR to pull thier fingers out thier arses and stop teams dragging thier feet and slowing the game, awesome, but I suspect it will just be a moment that will live in infamy.
Oh, funniest comment, think it was TJ...Camera pans over Foster then Rennie, and TJ comments that they are both former Chiefs coaches, with 2 time winner Rennie, and then nothing, sounded like he stopped in mid-sentence!!
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Something else that occurred to me was that if the situation last night was reversed this board would be piling full bore onto Mounga and Foster for being dumb in the act and not preparing players better. Instead (most) Aussies are piling onto the ref.
Some of that will come from the reaction of the Aussie comms team who tried to convince their audience that the ref was totally at fault. -
@taniwharugby yeah that card on the canary yellow 9 was very rough!
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Was it Lomax who escaped a YC for the lift and slam?
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@Crazy-Horse said in Bledisloe 1:
@NTA said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crazy-Horse said in Bledisloe 1:
Only going off one 'real time' viewing but I think Aussie were lucky to dodge another card when Jordan has his legs taken out from under him when going for a high ball. I think it was Koroibete. We scored a few phases after that so it was forgotten about. At the time the ref seemed to ignore it, then it sounded like he was told it was something that should be revisited and then we scored. Unsurprisingly there were no replays of it.
The call was that Koroibete was pushed into the contact accidentally by one of his team mates. I think we had one of those previously (maybe a NH Test?) where a player pulled out of contact but an accidental collision forced them into the zone.
Quite possibly, but I am not sure how you can tell that was the call from the coverage. Did you hear a conversation between the ref and the TMO?
Pretty sure I picked it up from Reynal's mic - had a look at the video at 53:55 game clock:
B Barrett puts up a bomb from just outside his 22, landing on AB 10m line
Koroibete is a bit in no man's land, looking for the ball but then realising he's run back too far. He pulls out of the contest, watches Jordan, setting for a tackle when he lands.
Kellaway, meanwhile, is roaring into the zone with eyes on the ball. He impacts Koroibete, forcing him into Jordan's path.
Reynal says pretty much immediately "No he was pushed. Play on!"
As the ball comes out of the next ruck, he clearly says "He was pushed by his player. Accidental. Yeah pushed by gold"And then I think he say something like "off his feet" but it isn't clear what he's referring to.
