All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@MN5 Attack was setup deeper in that game. It helped the midfield and forwards in particular who were able to run onto the ball rather than get the ball static
Hopefully they stick with that alignment going from now on. It's closer to what they all used at SR level
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
If you listened to Foster in the few actual rugby related questions in his PC he perked up when asked about the young props and whether he thinks they may have found what they are looking for. I expect them to get another go and be firmly in the experience gathering phase.
Frizell will start over Akira. Akira’s biggest flaw was obvious the other night and that is that he is an upper body player and they want more leg drive. If I could be bothered I would try and find clips but he carries leaning into the tacklers and swatting/shrugging away without pumping the legs. I really hope he can get past this instinct as it doesn’t serve well at top levels. Frizell usually drives that extra half metre plus and has the tacklers going backwards.
I think we will stick with the midfield. Any testing there will only come from the bench and at the moment the plan seems to be QT covering both positions (as ALB would). RTS doesn’t offer that.Interesting. If you read the fern it’s as simple as “Akira is God, Frizell is shit” but there’s obviously more to it than that as you’ve pointed out.
So what you’re saying if Akira doesn’t fend the guy straight away he goes to ground ?
He looks more capable of going up the guts than Frizell at first glance I have to say.
I’m at pains to point out that I’m not an Akira hater. I love watching X factor type skills and players that bring something different/extra. That’s why I will often defend DMac. It would be hypocritical if I didn’t also like Akira
With both though I can see why their strengths become their weaknesses at the very top levels and habits that work well for them elsewhere don’t translate.
They are great against all except the good forward power based teams of which, sadly for them and us, there are a couple more at the moment.
I can see why there is reluctance from selectors -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
If you listened to Foster in the few actual rugby related questions in his PC he perked up when asked about the young props and whether he thinks they may have found what they are looking for. I expect them to get another go and be firmly in the experience gathering phase.
Frizell will start over Akira. Akira’s biggest flaw was obvious the other night and that is that he is an upper body player and they want more leg drive. If I could be bothered I would try and find clips but he carries leaning into the tacklers and swatting/shrugging away without pumping the legs. I really hope he can get past this instinct as it doesn’t serve well at top levels. Frizell usually drives that extra half metre plus and has the tacklers going backwards.
I think we will stick with the midfield. Any testing there will only come from the bench and at the moment the plan seems to be QT covering both positions (as ALB would). RTS doesn’t offer that.Interesting. If you read the fern it’s as simple as “Akira is God, Frizell is shit” but there’s obviously more to it than that as you’ve pointed out.
So what you’re saying if Akira doesn’t fend the guy straight away he goes to ground ?
He looks more capable of going up the guts than Frizell at first glance I have to say.
I’m at pains to point out that I’m not an Akira hater. I love watching X factor type skills and players that bring something different/extra. That’s why I will often defend DMac. It would be hypocritical if I didn’t also like Akira
With both though I can see why their strengths become their weaknesses at the very top levels and habits that work well for them elsewhere don’t translate.
They are great against all except the good forward power based teams of which, sadly for them and us, there are a couple more at the moment.
I can see why there is reluctance from selectorsInteresting stuff. Some guys have better leg drive through strength/technique/power than others.
Compare Sam Cane and Ardie Savea for example.
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i would be loath to change a damn thing. 2 weeks between games should be ample rest. The team gelled as the game wore on, they didn't hit the ground running. To me that says the group needs another hit out to settle in to what they are being asked to do.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Akira’s biggest flaw was obvious the other night and that is that he is an upper body player and they want more leg drive. If I could be bothered I would try and find clips but he carries leaning into the tacklers and swatting/shrugging away without pumping the legs. I really hope he can get past this instinct as it doesn’t serve well at top levels.
Perhaps Jason Ryan can get something different out of him but at this point I think it's unlikely he will ever change. He debuted in Super Rugby in 2015 so you'd think if it was ever going to change it would have happened already.
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@mariner4life Interesting that's exactly what Ma'a Nonu was angling towards in the post match comments.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Akira’s biggest flaw was obvious the other night and that is that he is an upper body player and they want more leg drive. If I could be bothered I would try and find clips but he carries leaning into the tacklers and swatting/shrugging away without pumping the legs. I really hope he can get past this instinct as it doesn’t serve well at top levels.
Perhaps Jason Ryan can get something different out of him but at this point I think it's unlikely he will ever change. He debuted in Super Rugby in 2015 so you'd think if it was ever going to change it would have happened already.
But he gets results from playing that way in Super a good portion of the time. He's playing against a wider group of player abilities rather than best of the best. Again, to use the DMac example, DMac can step and run around players in Super but hit brick walls in tests.
DMac is trying to transfer his experiences into being an effective 10 now but Akira will go back to Super in the same roles he has always played and do well at them.
If he was to buy into a work on to add more leg drive in contact it would be great for the ABs as his overall skills are much better than Frizell.BTW did anyone notice that unlike Akira, Frizell isn't used out wide?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life Interesting that's exactly what Ma'a Nonu was angling towards in the post match comments.
smart boy that Nonu
don't tell me i am actually going to have to start watching post-match chat because they are suddenly saying interesting things? the game takes long enough FFS
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
i would be loath to change a damn thing. 2 weeks between games should be ample rest. The team gelled as the game wore on, they didn't hit the ground running. To me that says the group needs another hit out to settle in to what they are being asked to do.
i agree...but i think there is zero chance of that, fozzie loves to mix things up, as soon as he starts to see something work....he starts to look for the next thing
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thing is, Akira may go about it a different way, but he is no less effective at generating go forward. He does leg drive, but he's very much a static type runner, who uses a bit of early footwork to push through, and then drives. his body height is totally different though, and he gets away with it because he is apparently enormously strong.
It would be very interesting to see what sort of a dent he would make in a line if he actually crashed on to a ball at pace.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
i would be loath to change a damn thing. 2 weeks between games should be ample rest. The team gelled as the game wore on, they didn't hit the ground running. To me that says the group needs another hit out to settle in to what they are being asked to do.
i agree...but i think there is zero chance of that, fozzie loves to mix things up, as soon as he starts to see something work....he starts to look for the next thing
is that true? That seems like the exact opposite of what he is constantly criticised for.
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@mariner4life beat me to it, as I was typing this:
Akira would be much more effective if he received the ball with some momentum. Often he gets the ball while almost stationary, and even though he can still make some ground, imagine what he could do running at speed.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life beat me to it, as I was typing this:
Akira would be much more effective if he received the ball with some momentum. Often he gets the ball while almost stationary, and even though he can still make some ground, imagine what he could do running at speed.
he and A Savea are so very similar in the way they run the football it's not funny. Perhaps that is part of what Frizzell added. It wasn't so much the output, but just the way he went about it gave the South Africans something different to deal with.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
i would be loath to change a damn thing. 2 weeks between games should be ample rest. The team gelled as the game wore on, they didn't hit the ground running. To me that says the group needs another hit out to settle in to what they are being asked to do.
i agree...but i think there is zero chance of that, fozzie loves to mix things up, as soon as he starts to see something work....he starts to look for the next thing
is that true? That seems like the exact opposite of what he is constantly criticised for.
ok, i see what you mean, yeah, some like cane and savea seem nailed no no matter what happens...but other like the midfield, front row and 6 he swap around regardless how how the last game has gone
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
i would be loath to change a damn thing. 2 weeks between games should be ample rest. The team gelled as the game wore on, they didn't hit the ground running. To me that says the group needs another hit out to settle in to what they are being asked to do.
i agree...but i think there is zero chance of that, fozzie loves to mix things up, as soon as he starts to see something work....he starts to look for the next thing
is that true? That seems like the exact opposite of what he is constantly criticised for.
ok, i see what you mean, yeah, some like cane and savea seem nailed no no matter what happens...but other like the midfield, front row and 6 he swap around regardless how how the last game has gone
Havili and Ioane have played the most as a midfield under Foster and I agree with Nonu, they just need time if that’s what the team needs this season. Most of the change has been forced due to illness/injury.
Still think it would be ALB in there if he were fit.
Blindside on the other hand has been a bit mixed - some horses for courses and some you would say experimental - Dalton, Blackadder, Scooter, Frizell, Ioane.
With the front row I have a little more sympathy because we are at the point in the cycle where we have a heap of up and comers with very limited experience and then a group of experienced players that aren’t in form
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@Crucial I don’t know if I agree that he lacks leg drive. I watched his carries on Saturday and he always ends up moving forward of the contact area. I think he is not fit enough to get into a position where he can run onto the ball with some pace or it’s the flat formation they employ. He does try to fend more and I would prefer to see him hit up with pace. Where is the coaching or does he just not listen? Frizzell has better fitness but if they both wound up from 10 meters who would you rather get in front of.
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@ACT-Crusader The primary reason why the backs played so much better is that we had a competitive forward pack on Saturday which has been the problem all along. I might even accept Havilli at 2nd five if he is not on the back foot all the time.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader The primary reason why the backs played so much better is that we had a competitive forward pack on Saturday which has been the problem all along. I might even accept Havilli at 2nd five if he is not on the back foot all the time.
I'd say a primary reason was we played with depth so we could better attack from too. It enabled us to better manage the rush defence which the Boks centre their defence and attack off. Plus having a 1st 5 that has an intent to attack and set his outsides (and the odd Bok
) up was integral to that. -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader The primary reason why the backs played so much better is that we had a competitive forward pack on Saturday which has been the problem all along. I might even accept Havilli at 2nd five if he is not on the back foot all the time.
I'd say a primary reason was we played with depth so we could better attack from too. It enabled us to better manage the rush defence which the Boks centre their defence and attack off. Plus having a 1st 5 that has an intent to attack and set his outsides (and the odd Bok
) up was integral to that.AND I would say the primary reason we won was we attacked with variety, pods tipped and flushed and hit up, backs drew and passed into gaps rather than just fire wide a hope for a line break
I imagine this means it was a bit of all of these things
