Springboks v All Blacks I
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Just got up ,hardly surprised by this result , confidence is an amazing thing and i believe most of that confidence had been sucked out of this All Black team after the Irish series.
Probably , not a bad thing hopefully the catalyst for change in and around the coach and the skipper .
Dont get me wrong still want see the ABs do well, but this team is in freefall. -
Awesome Silverlake timing
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All Blacks terrible again and absolutely deserved to lose. But the Boks tactics at the high ball all game lead to the Barrett incident at the end. They have clearly been coached to jump for the high ball with the intent to knock the opposition out of the way and the officials let them away with it. And the end result was the red card incident.
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@Stag said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
All Blacks terrible again and absolutely deserved to lose. But the Boks tactics at the high ball all game lead to the Barrett incident at the end. They have clearly been coached to jump for the high ball with the intent to knock the opposition out of the way and the officials let them away with it. And the end result was the red card incident.
I don't think the Bok player jumped to be fair.
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@BerniesCorner a phone call from them might be helpful right know.
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I actually think they can win the World Cup now.....they will be compelled to try something different, be it management , selection, gameplay or otherwise.
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@Stag said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
All Blacks terrible again and absolutely deserved to lose. But the Boks tactics at the high ball all game lead to the Barrett incident at the end. They have clearly been coached to jump for the high ball with the intent to knock the opposition out of the way and the officials let them away with it. And the end result was the red card incident.
They've been doing it for years. At least Habana used to put his hand up at least when jumping.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Stag said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
All Blacks terrible again and absolutely deserved to lose. But the Boks tactics at the high ball all game lead to the Barrett incident at the end. They have clearly been coached to jump for the high ball with the intent to knock the opposition out of the way and the officials let them away with it. And the end result was the red card incident.
I don't think the Bok player jumped to be fair.
The replay showed the Bok player left his feet
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Putting aside the issue of clean out (and not to in any way ignore its significance), apart from a stand out effort from Marx, AB forwards stood up well to comparison.
I thought our locks shaded it. Props so so, but Bok props tailed off after first scrum. PSDT very muted, and Wiese ineffective. Even Kolisi didn't for me outshine Cane.
The backs were the difference, even though Bok backs individually very meh. They had a clear plan to kick most of the time, and with our contesting being pants there was no reason to stop. Probably responsible for the win.
As for AB backs, to me they just seem muddled. Couldn't identify a focus on breaking on inside or to the outside.
If Jordan was a racehorse I'd suspect doping.
Jordie seems well off Super form. Richie seems to have the best boot at the mo.But at root, there is no discernible cohesion between 12 and 13. Compare Boks who have had same 10/12/13 for majority of games since 2019 RWC.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Stag said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
All Blacks terrible again and absolutely deserved to lose. But the Boks tactics at the high ball all game lead to the Barrett incident at the end. They have clearly been coached to jump for the high ball with the intent to knock the opposition out of the way and the officials let them away with it. And the end result was the red card incident.
I don't think the Bok player jumped to be fair.
He did. He just didn't get any height because he got his takeoff point all wrong. That's what happens when you aren't looking at the ball and actually trying to contest.
He got away with one in first half against J Barrett. Watch it again. He didn't look at the ball at all. Just jumped to put off the AB catcher and interfere to force the knock on.
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Bundee Aki currently loitering up in Ireland would walk into the team and he was a cast off about 8 years ago.
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Awesome Silverlake timing
Maybe the NZRU saw this coming, hence why the deal got forced through so quickly 😉
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Bundee Aki currently loitering up in Ireland would walk into the team and he was a cast off about 8 years ago.
Hansen in his wisdom chose Francis Saili over him.... Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues at the time.....
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Bundee Aki currently loitering up in Ireland would walk into the team and he was a cast off about 8 years ago.
He wasn't good enough 8 years ago.
Question is, what happened with the development of NZ's midfield options in 8 years.
ALB and Goodbye have been injured, but where are the other options?
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Bundee Aki currently loitering up in Ireland would walk into the team and he was a cast off about 8 years ago.
He wasn't good enough 8 years ago.
Question is, what happened with the development of NZ's midfield options in 8 years.
ALB and Goodbye have been injured, but where are the other options?
In fact, it's hard not to believe that ALB and Jack would go a long way to putting this right. Once Jack injured the options were limited this time.
If one wants targets then U-Js are probably next cabs on rank.
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One thing I noticed is they are obviously got some issues with culture. Maybe I'm overstating it but after Ireland game we were not connected and together after the game or during it, this game there seemed to be an emphasis on celebrating say scrum wins, while after the game they came together for the huddle, incl all non-players. Issues maybe deep rooted. seemed a little forced from outside looking in. In comparison Sth Africa looked like they were best of
mates, lots of emotion, like Ireland... -
We could really do with a couple of easier tests to give some other combo's a try. Three Irish and Boks pretty stern start to season.
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Brodie was missed big time in my book… but will take the win even after Gardner transgressions considered. We were flat mostly but powered through the time against some very flat AB play…. I kept waiting for the spark…Not sure Foster the only issue at the moment and thought Cane played out his skin. Ellis Park next week will hopefully not get too messy but both teams have loads to improve on-
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@stodders the biggest problem is the forwards. I know I am a broken record but fix that problem first then there will be more front foot ball and space for the backs. I wouldn’t care if we reverted to the day where the ball didn’t get past the first five just to ingrain in the forwards that they have to dominate. And get a halfback who can organize that. Smith, should be dropped because he is not doing that.
2nd five is problematic though I agree. But the backs are playing hot potato in an effort to do something which is stupid.
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Bundee Aki currently loitering up in Ireland would walk into the team and he was a cast off about 8 years ago.
Hansen in his wisdom chose Francis Saili over him.... Saili wasn't even starting for the Blues at the time.....
Now Stade Francais have flicked Ngani for Francais.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders the biggest problem is the forwards. I know I am a broken record but fix that problem first then there will be more front foot ball and space for the backs. I wouldn’t care if we reverted to the day where the ball didn’t get past the first five just to ingrain in the forwards that they have to dominate.
2nd five is problematic though I agree. But the backs are playing hot potato in an effort to do something which is stupid.
Surely not Pick n'Go?
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders the biggest problem is the forwards. I know I am a broken record but fix that problem first then there will be more front foot ball and space for the backs. I wouldn’t care if we reverted to the day where the ball didn’t get past the first five just to ingrain in the forwards that they have to dominate.
2nd five is problematic though I agree. But the backs are playing hot potato in an effort to do something which is stupid.
Forwards were better today in some areas than in Irish series. Lineout went well, scrums were evenly matched as game went on, maul defence was good mostly. Pick and goes worked at times too. Another week with Ryan and they may get better.
ABs gave away too many penalties today and conceded too much territory and pressure. Boks just had to wait for a one out runner to get isolated or a mistake or a brain fade.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
apparently his family haven't settled.
not sure how he has been performing. but he was grand in black every time he played.
didn't he have a ridiculous try scoring ratio for allblacks?
8 tries in 15 games at 12.
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@broughie I here what you saying but I think the forwards are there but they are playing a pattern that emphasises shape and playing the back door rather than getting over the advantage line as you say. And issue of or pattern not matching who we have on the field.
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@mantissanet said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Brodie was missed big time in my book… but will take the win even after Gardner transgressions considered. We were flat mostly but powered through the time against some very flat AB play…. I kept waiting for the spark…Not sure Foster the only issue at the moment and thought Cane played out his skin. Ellis Park next week will hopefully not get too messy but both teams have loads to improve on-
I thought Cane played really well too. I feel sorry for him.
He is a 6.5. Sam Underhill type.
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@98blueandgold well the back door is not working and whatever they have been doing has not for years now. Hopefully next week there will be other signs of life.
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@98blueandgold said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@broughie I here what you saying but I think the forwards are there but they are playing a pattern that emphasises shape and playing the back door rather than getting over the advantage line as you say. And issue of or pattern not matching who we have on the field.
Didn't they change the pod structure? 2-3-2-1 rather than 1-3-3-1? If you want to go up the guts, maybe they need to revert back to 1-3-3-1 again.
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The Bokke have perfected rush defense tonight.
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
The Bokke have perfected rush defense tonight.
They blurred the offside line v well and got away with it. Smart play.
On another day, you'll get pinged off the park. That's the chance you take.
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@stodders the problem i have is they seem to go back door as first option all the time, putting us under huge pressure, defence seems to be able to read it rather easily. we need those pods almost to be run first and then pass (maybe, only being a couch coach haha). When you watch the Irish particularly they are amazing at going to the back door after getting fast front football which creates space. we go back door even if it is slow ball allowing the rush to be effective, isolating carries (hence breakdown issues) or it looks like we are playing hot potato.
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@OomPB You won and congratulations. The Rush defense was perfected because we couldn’t win the forward battle. So then we had to play, tried to play Helter skelter which was stupid, and that made you guys look like world beaters.
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@98blueandgold said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders the problem i have is they seem to go back door as first option all the time, putting us under huge pressure, defence seems to be able to read it rather easily. we need those pods almost to be run first and then pass (maybe, only being a couch coach haha). When you watch the Irish particularly they are amazing at going to the back door after getting fast front football which creates space. we go back door even if it is slow ball allowing the rush to be effective, isolating carries (hence breakdown issues) or it looks like we are playing hot potato.
It is easier to defend if you know the ball carrier is likely to pass out back. It is even easier if the ball carrier has no obvious support to effect a clean out. The patterns the AB use on attack are too obvious, and have been for a while.
Rush defences and their reading of play have got better. AB attack hasn't.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
not sure how he has been performing. but he was grand in black every time he played.
No he wasn't.
His last test at 12 vs Wallabies in Brisbane he offered fuck all - just had no physical impact on the game whatsoever.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders i’m not that astute to the pod pattens. Let’s just try to win the incremental battles, retain possession and make them tackle.
exactly. we weren't even in a position to advance the scoreboard in increments of 3.
miles off.
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If the truth be told, if the Boks were more clinical with all the possession and territory they had, this could have been very ugly. AB defence was very good for the most part and they stopped Bok runners in their tracks. Good sign.
At no point did the Boks feel any scoreboard pressure. At no point did the ABs build pressure for a concerted 5-10 mins period. Knock ons, bad options, silly penalties, all relieved pressure.
ABs did well to get some momentum back in first half after a thoroughly one sided first 20 mins. At 10-3 at half-time, they'd have been relieved. In the past, AB teams that stayed in the fight would have struck back. This side didn't fire a shot until Clarke's burst late on.
I'm not sure how you fix this in one week.
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