All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

Gunner

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588576" data-time="1466038458">
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yeah, but who else would you play there? they figure that 14 Smith + 15 Dagg is >> 15 Smith + 14 ????
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See my post below, from 5 posts above :yes:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="588562" data-time="1466036444">
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Yep, agreed.
 
But........
 
I just don't get why they can't keep the worlds best fullback at fullback, and put Dagg on the wing.
Surely he has the skills to do a good job there, just like many fullbacks before him have - see Smith, Jane, NMS, Wilson.
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nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="588583" data-time="1466038944">
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 just don't get why they can't keep the worlds best fullback at fullback, and put Dagg on the wing.
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I'll agree to disagree then.

I think Dagg on the wing is a major step down. So clearly the three wise men agree with me, that
 
14 Dagg + 15 Smith << 14 Smith + 15 Dagg
 
I don't think Dagg has the skills or speed to be an effective winger. We've converted people before (Kahui in 2011 anyone?), but Dagg's skillset and thumping boot clearly work better from fullback.
 
I'll stick with my point that I think Smith is our best option at 14 at present (given Naholo at 11)

KiwiMurph

Dagg on the wing when it has been tried has not been terribly successful in Super Rugby, I remember the Blues owned him at Eden Park when he played on the wing a few years back, he played wing in the World Cup 2011 game v Canada I think it was but being Canada was a bit hard to gauge (I think Vito played 7 that day). 
 
As mentioned Smith at 14 (where he got nominated for World Player of the Year a few years back) and Dagg 15 is far superior to other way around in my opinion.

Stargazer

Hansen on the selection of Dagg in the starting line-up, Barrett on the bench and the non-selection of Julian Savea:
 
[media]

kiwiinmelb

I don't think it's a question of who is the best fullback ? 
It's what is the best back 3 ?

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="588596" data-time="1466039420">
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I don't think it's a question of who is the best fullback ? 
It's what is the best back 3 ?
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I remember when they tried the Savea/Gear/Barrett combo. That didn't work out amazingly well despite a sound hammering of Italy.
 
In the WC combo of Kahui/Jane/Dagg would Kahui be considered the power wing or was he a bit of a hybrid ?

ACT Crusader

Bender's kick chase game from the right wing is the best in the world IMO. Dagg can be better used with his garry owens from the back. The promising thing for Dagg though is that he's running more freely and not stopping before he goes into contact.

kiwiinmelb

I think that's the thing , if dagg has his attacking mojo back , this combination could be a lot better than people think .

Gunner

I'm clearly in the minority here about the idea of the Smith 15, Dagg 14 combo, instead of the Dagg 15, Smith 14 combo.
 
Therefore I concede defeat :truce:
 
But don't get me wrong, I'm still happy with Dagg 15, Smith 14.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="588601" data-time="1466039744">
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I remember when they tried the Savea/Gear/Barrett combo. That didn't work out amazingly well despite a sound hammering of Italy.
 
In the WC combo of Kahui/Jane/Dagg would Kahui be considered the power wing or was he a bit of a hybrid ?
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Kahui was considered safe. We won that world cup in 2011 playing safe rugby. It was that safety which almost cost us the final.
 
Don't get me wrong, Kahui is a bloody good player and has a certain amount of x-factor in the centres, less so on the wing. But he catches his kicks, he makes his tackles (hard) and gets over the gainline. You aren't going to see individual briliance on the wing from him like you can Savea, Naholo, NMS, B.Smith.
 
IN RWC 2015, where we played more open, I don't think he would have made the 23.

Bovidae

Dagg did have a good cameo performance on the left wing vs SA in his debut season (2010) when he scored that great individual try.
 
But this is the most logical option to accommodate both. The challenge for Dagg will be to provide the same spark on the counter-attack that we expect (and receive) from Smith.
 
One major advantage will be that the ABs have another kicking option at the back. The flipside of this back three combo is that you know Naholo will be the main target from any aerial assault from Wales.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="588621" data-time="1466040991">
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Kahui was considered safe. We won that world cup in 2011 playing safe rugby. It was that safety which almost cost us the final.
 
Don't get me wrong, Kahui is a bloody good player and has a certain amount of x-factor in the centres, less so on the wing. But he catches his kicks, he makes his tackles (hard) and gets over the gainline. You aren't going to see individual briliance on the wing from him like you can Savea, Naholo, NMS, B.Smith.
 
IN RWC 2015, where we played more open, I don't think he would have made the 23.
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I think he would now though with his three main rivals gone.

Siam

Mostly Dagg is there because we have a slight winger crisis I reckon.
 
A fit NMS and Savea in better "space" and it wouldn't be an issue
 
That said we don't lose much thanks to the genuine quality of Ben Smith.
 
Trying to repress it but I'm the tiniest bit gun-shy on Izzy. Have too many memories of him in his bad form days characterised by being a hungus, running his wingers out of space and the river dance that hasn't fooled anyone since that Yarpie test eons ago
 
Shag rates him though, so there's that

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="588628" data-time="1466042823">
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Mostly Dagg is there because we have a slight winger crisis I reckon.
 
A fit NMS and Savea in better "space" and it wouldn't be an issue
 
That said we don't lose much thanks to the genuine quality of Ben Smith.
 
Trying to repress it but I'm the tiniest bit gun-shy on Izzy. Have too many memories of him in his bad form days characterised by being a hungus, running his wingers out of space and the river dance that hasn't fooled anyone since that Yarpie test eons ago
 
Shag rates him though, so there's that
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Catches high balls. See the Taffs game plan last week?

Samurai Jack

Agree MajorRage. Dagg and Smith at the back nullifies the Welsh kicking game.

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="588636" data-time="1466044790">
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Catches high balls. See the Taffs game plan last week?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Samurai Jack" data-cid="588654" data-time="1466047928">
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Agree MajorRage. Dagg and Smith at the back nullifies the Welsh kicking game. 
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Good points
 
Hoping Izzy can ignite something from the back too, then all is well with the world

Billy Tell

Hope Daggs brings more of this:

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="588513" data-time="1466031360">
Maybe it is personal issues... or maybe they opened up a Carls Jr in his neighbourhood and it is equidistant with his KFC from his house . Such choice can be both distracting and overwhelming. 
My credibility is severely affected on here - only last week I boldly said Ben Smith would not start on the wing because he's the vice-captain and is too valuable to the team to be stranded on the wing. 
Fuck I told you so.</blockquote>
 
Credibility? You post on the Fern ...

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="588621" data-time="1466040991">
Kahui was considered safe. We won that world cup in 2011 playing safe rugby. It was that safety which almost cost us the final. </blockquote>
 
2011 was a long lomg time ago ... but ... one thing that nearly cost us the final was ignoring a 3 on 1 overlap hungusnicity ... looking at you Izzy ...

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="588742" data-time="1466067673">
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2011 was a long lomg time ago ... but ... one thing that nearly cost us the final was ignoring a 3 on 1 overlap hungusnicity ... looking at you Izzy ...
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Bones constantly tells me I live in the past, it hurts coming from you too.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2