All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane comes from the openside
Yeah, that was a real fuckup from him there.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
No they won’t, we watched the same as you, previously he stepped up internationally, not this time.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Havili was caught in no-man's land for a couple of the Irish tries.
As anonymous a game as it's possible to have
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@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
This ball v man thing o'gara talks about intrigues me
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
This ball v man thing o'gara talks about intrigues me
To me, it essentially sounds like a way to read an attack that relies on sheparding.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
And so to the losers
What can you say? 2nd best again last night. For a team to do so much right at times, but come up with so little? Very disappointing.
The kick, kick, kick stuff is so bad. We get so little out of it, we just keep giving the ball back to Ireland at about half way.
The helter skelter, lets go both ways attack is useless. Hot take time, Aaron Smith is a big part of the problem. Those wide flat passes fired as early as possible very really hit a player to our advantage I think i saw at least 3 occassions where he hit a guy who was just turning around from getting back on side. that player was obviously immediately swallowed.
We play flat as fuck so there is no momentum on to the ball. But worst of all is, the helter skleter shit means eventually we run out of players to make a breakdown, and we turn it over.The backline "attack" is abismal. It's nothing more inventive than "hands" sometimes with teh centre or the 12 standing in front of the intended recipient, but not in such a position that it attracts a defender. Ireland were asked no questions all night. What in the fuck is the point in backing that 13, 11, and 14 and then not giving them an opportunity? Just wasted.
Then we make it worse by sticking Ioane on the tram tracks, and never getting him the ball?! Yet when he hits it closer up he smashes them. No, i know, lets run Savea there, where he is least effective.The defense is just terrible. Picked apart by the passing. No speed. No ability to put in dominant hits and then slow the ruck. Out wide they are all at sea. Will Jordan has no fucking idea what he is doing defensively. In? Out? Up? hold? no clue.
As or the breakdown. Fuck me dead. Accurate? no. So more numbers? also no. Maybe that's why Smith whips it out of there before thinking, because if he hesitates we'll get smoked on the counter-ruck. I lost count of missed clean out assignments today.
The whole plan is to play fast, one-off running for a few phases, and then kick, or we play that side to side shit. And hope someone breaks a tackle, or a defender makes a mistake. We won't try to create the mistake, we'll just hope it happens. And now we are giving up a heap of points as well, that will fail far more than it works.
So that is how you win every stat and yet still get pretty well beaten.
This is a pretty good assessment of the AB’s and it’s been festering since toward the backend of the Hansen era. The over reliance of the individual to beat their opposing player to create an overlap etc is working against us when we run into really good sides who take away our time and space consistently.
We haven’t changed up our game whereas the NH sides especially have done so.
The question is whether Foster can come up with a new game plan in time for RWC?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
I don’t want to over simplify it too much but this is correct. Nearly every single break the Irish made was due to their manipulation of decoy runners, tips, the old double round to a double decoy runner to Sexton just drawing a defender in to put a runner into space. It was a thing of beauty to watch. What amazed me is the AB defence had no answer.
Again it’s not that simple but employing an effective rush defence focusing on Sexton may have worked along with putting more pressure on the Irish ruck would have at least denied Sexton time and space.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Fuck it's a stretch to blame that on the front row alone! There are a huge number of people at fault for that. Look at the numbers they were left with.
And then BB with the dumb ass hero play
To be honest, I don't really blame Beaudy for that at all.
Ireland has about 6 on 3 on the openside and with even vaguely competent passing they score.
The people at fault are the people who aren't there to defend.
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Thought Havili was one of the better ones. Once again, being left to cover a number of players as the defensive structure isn't there. RI was all at sea as well as was everyone else. A lot of this talk of certain players like RI, Havili, shows more about the poster's provincial bias or their agenda more than anything else. This chaotic mess of a team is sacrificing good players and I assume destroying the confidence of new ones like QT and LF.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Thought Havili was one of the better ones. Once again, being left to cover a number of players as the defensive structure isn't there. RI was all at sea as well as was everyone else. A lot of this talk of certain players like RI, Havili, shows more about the poster's provincial bias or their agenda more than anything else. This chaotic mess of a team is sacrificing good players and I assume destroying the confidence of new ones like QT and LF.
We don’t have any combinations and our players don’t seem to have any idea about what the player beside them is doing.
So, we can improve that with better coaching and perhaps choosing some selections that have combination. If they wanted RTS out there, it says everything about this coaching group that they decided to do it with Mo’unga at 10 and Havili shifted to 13, as opposed to starting him between Barrett and Roane.
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I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
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@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
Planning, structures (all provinces linking up with the IRFU high performance program), development, talent identification (both domestic and bringing in foreign born players who want to play for Ireland), great use of foreign internationals to help develop Irish national team talent and ultimately great coaching.
It didn't happen overnight, but it is now bearing fruit.
NZ don't have the best high performance program right now. It can be rectified though. NZ already has the players and coaches in its system, so the whole thing doesn't need rebuilding. But there is work to do on talent identification (lack of locks) and developing the players for test match rugby (low error rate, high execution of basics under duress).
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?No Bower stays for sure
Taylor yes.
Fuck knows at tighthead
Retallick going down is a blessing because a new lock has to play
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
The Barretts are obviously talented but I don't know where to play them?
Havili should be cut from the squadI was kind of finding it hard to decide how Havili went Mariner, I didn't see him do a lot good (or bad) at ground, he certainly didn't show out a lot.
Mind you coming up to halftime I almost wondered if Akira was on the field too, he certainly looked to up his work in second half.
It was strange at ground (not sure how it looked on tv) but first half ABs seemed to be doing some stuff quite well, but looked to be missing any X factor players?
Will Jordan actually looked a little lost on defence a couple of times too I thought, not sure if there was a lack of communication, but seemed that Irish like the left side to attack?
Will have another peek at game on tv during week. -
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
Perhaps we have got a little blase' with a number of X factor players over the last few years DMX and seemed to have not have really needed great game management to win games, and so haven't worked on them as much? I have kept saying I think our super teams have lost a lot of skills etc over last few years,
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
This ball v man thing o'gara talks about intrigues me
Yeah I remember watching that and it’s something I had never thought about before either ,
Is it to do with our previous strength of winning turnover ball and punishing teams going back the other way ? and that is still part of our planning when we are setting up to defend , even though it doesn’t seem to be as effective now .
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@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
The current Ireland team would have committed the penalty earlier and stopped the momentum in that final sequence in 2013. They are smarter/more cynical now too.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@DMX said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I remember back in the day when ABs played Ireland I would estimate they could not get through 5 phases without a mistake. I would also guess that if they tried to play any open rugby over the course of a game the scre would blow up against them. Now their all round skills seem to match or perhaps be even superior to the ABs and that is across every position. How did this happen?
From my perspective, since that extra time loss in 2013 to the ABs, I’ve seen a steady improvement from Ireland in several areas. There was so much post- match talk about improving fitness, conditioning and the mental side, which has been far more evident in the last 8 years. They have still had ups and down but far more ups then downs.
Just on that match, it has one of the most phenomenal final sequences, but we didn’t play well that match. Ireland almost played the perfect match against us and we were made to look fairly ordinary and rudderless at times. We did have class in the team, but for me the biggest thing was the self belief.
The current Ireland team would have committed the penalty earlier and stopped the momentum in that final sequence in 2013. They are smarter/more cynical now too.
A Razor coached team would have deliberately infringed and killed the ball 40 metres out and near the sideline, sensing the danger.
