Black Caps tour of England 2022
-
@MN5 Probably because he never gets picked.
Dunno if he's available, but he's not a good enough bowler to command an allrounder spot in a test team - and he's not a good enough batsman to command a specialist batting spot.
Apparently, he doesn't even warrant a NZC contract - though that's a mystery to me - should be one of the first picked for ODIs and T20s.
-
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 Yeah - bloody Parc des Colin!!!
Where are the stats capturing his dozy runout, his dismissing Stokes with a no-ball and then busting his foot and leaving us a bowler short - all tied up with a big bow and handed to the English in a box labelled "Momentum"!
He showed us his best and his worst all inside a few days. Time to move on from him, he simply can't be trusted
I hesitate to say it, as it was such a train wreck with increasing momentum.
But for NZ, the loss of CdG through injury was probably the critical moment that the series turned into an irretreivable burning dumpster fire.
From that moment on NZ never controlled the run rate.
It meant NZ selected M Bracewell to replace him on all-rounder balance and dropped Ajaz. With Wagner and Henry taking up CdG 3rd/4th seamer role. All of these 3 went for 2 to 3 runs per over more than what CdG was doing.
Small sample sizes, but ....
-
I'm not sure that Jamieson upsets the balance of the side anymore, though he is a huge loss as a bowler. Saw a couple of Tweets over the weekend saying Jamieson has gone from being a genuine all-rounder candidate to being a genuine #11 candidate with the bat - at least on form.
On recent stats (e.g. this series https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=14150;team=5;type=series) it's hard to argue...
Looking up his overall batting record in Tests, it's got worse the longer he's played. The number of innings have increased, while averages and balls faced have dropped significantly:
Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/kyle-jamieson-625960/bowling-batting-stats
-
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
I'm not sure that Jamieson upsets the balance of the side anymore, though he is a huge loss as a bowler. Saw a couple of Tweets over the weekend saying Jamieson has gone from being a genuine all-rounder candidate to being a genuine #11 candidate with the bat - at least on form.
On recent stats (e.g. this series https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=14150;team=5;type=series) it's hard to argue...
Looking up his overall batting record in Tests, it's got worse the longer he's played. The number of innings have increased, while averages and balls faced have dropped significantly:
Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/kyle-jamieson-625960/bowling-batting-stats
His batting has undoubtably taken a step back. But as you say he was still dangerous with the ball, something that could not be said for the players who were selected in his place
-
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
I'm not sure that Jamieson upsets the balance of the side anymore, though he is a huge loss as a bowler. Saw a couple of Tweets over the weekend saying Jamieson has gone from being a genuine all-rounder candidate to being a genuine #11 candidate with the bat - at least on form.
On recent stats (e.g. this series https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=14150;team=5;type=series) it's hard to argue...
Looking up his overall batting record in Tests, it's got worse the longer he's played. The number of innings have increased, while averages and balls faced have dropped significantly:
Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/kyle-jamieson-625960/bowling-batting-stats
Absolutely.
Jamieson injury didn't impact the balance at all in the next test. Got replaced by one of the best 3rd/4th seamers in history with similar (lack of) batting talent. There is no impact to team balance there.
CdG was replaced by a 2 player shuffle. Weakening the team in 4 areas. A worse batting allrounder, a worse spinner, worse ER, and a waaaaaaay worse 4th seamer (that partly was optional though, muddle-headed selection of Henry over Wagner).
-
-
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Wagner gets better the more overs he bowls, so Stead was a muppet expecting him to come in cold for the 3rd test and perform.
It's not like he shouldn't be aware of how the guy ticks FFS. Not like he wasn't an integral piece of us winning the giant golden drink stirrer.... 🙄
-
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
-
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Wagner gets better the more overs he bowls, so Stead was a muppet expecting him to come in cold for the 3rd test and perform.
They also ended Neesham's career for Bracewell. Gary Stead said that "he is the spinning-all rounder we have been looking for for a decade". Absolutely infuriating incompetence.
"We like the shape he has on the ball. And he is tall and strong."
Literal quote from the top coach of a national team.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source. -
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Bovidae said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Wagner gets better the more overs he bowls, so Stead was a muppet expecting him to come in cold for the 3rd test and perform.
They also ended Neesham's career for Bracewell. Gary Stead said that "he is the spinning-all rounder we have been looking for for a decade". Absolutely infuriating incompetence.
"We like the shape he has on the ball. And he is tall and strong."
Literal quote from the top coach of a national team.
Cool, based on that logic I’ll expect a call up pretty soon.
-
@Chris but Stead contributes tactics as well, in addition to selections and man-management, and he's pretty easily the worst strategist NZ have had for a Blackcaps head coach. Our success has clearly been inspite of him. NZ goat senior leaders at the peak of their player development, wisdom & maturity between 2018-2021 (Taylor, Williamson, Latham, Southee, Boult, Wagner, Conway, etc.) Significant amounts of combined intellectual property to make Stead's job a cruisy one. Cricket players generally peak in their late 20's-early 30's and this lines up with Stead's tenure.
-
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.I would have assumed that too. Test cricket is one of the rare sports where the Captain has as much power to select the team as the coach, if not more. Not Kane's finest hour
-
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.Given Williamson has been seen more often for Sunrisers Hyderabad lately than for the Black Caps, and that he's about to be rested again, perhaps it's time for Williamson's non-batting influence to be examined a bit more closely.
I'm not sure that Williamson would have bowled Patel often/well even had he been included in the side. Mitchell isn't necessarily the world's greatest test bowler, but you'd have been forgiven for thinking we didn't have a fifth bowler at all at Headingly.
(And if he's had any say in Wagner's non-selections in India and England...!?!!)
-
@Donsteppa said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.Given Williamson has been seen more often for Sunrisers Hyderabad lately than for the Black Caps, and that he's about to be rested again, perhaps it's time for Williamson's non-batting influence to be examined a bit more closely.
I'm not sure that Williamson would have bowled Patel often/well even had he been included in the side. Mitchell isn't necessarily the world's greatest test bowler, but you'd have been forgiven for thinking we didn't have a fifth bowler at all at Headingly.
(And if he's had any say in Wagner's non-selections in India and England...!?!!)
I think we saw Williamson not bowling Patel in the first test as a sign he doesn’t rate him that highly.
If Williamson wanted Wagner in the team he would have been in the team he welds a lot of power in selections. -
@canefan said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.I would have assumed that too. Test cricket is one of the rare sports where the Captain has as much power to select the team as the coach, if not more. Not Kane's finest hour
Yes all the power in Cricket with the Skip.
-
@Chris-B said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@MN5 Probably because he never gets picked.
Dunno if he's available, but he's not a good enough bowler to command an allrounder spot in a test team - and he's not a good enough batsman to command a specialist batting spot.
Apparently, he doesn't even warrant a NZC contract - though that's a mystery to me - should be one of the first picked for ODIs and T20s.
He doesn't have a domestic contract in NZ either. It's seems he must be rubbing someone the wrong way as I agree he should be one of the first picks for white ball cricket.
-
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.True that may be but i'm not entirely sure what value Stead is adding?
-
@KiwiMurph said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@Chris said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Black Caps tour of England 2022:
Stead it's time to go. Honestly I think our success in the last four years under him is in spite of him instead of due to him (CWC19, WTC2021, T20WC). Our test team for about 5 years essentially picked itself (apart from the introduction of Jamieson) until the WTC final, and since then our selections have been hilariously shocking.
I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Black Caps and even I thought we'd beat Bangas and SA but perhaps lose this series 2-1 or 2-0 once BJ and Roscoe had gone. Instead we somehow draw both home series and then lost 3-0? That's as bad as you could possibly expect given the talent in the side.
Williamson has a big impact in Selections in fact he gets the team he wants,So he is more selecting the side than Stead.
Its not all on Stead.And that is from a guaranteed source.True that may be but i'm not entirely sure what value Stead is adding?
Not much,I am not defending Stead just trying to get people to realise it’s Kane who dominates selections.
I think the team needs a new voice at the top so Stead needs to go.
