New Zealand under 20

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="da_grubster" data-cid="586807" data-time="1465671719">
well they are the defending champions and if you look at their record then it is highly impressive at this level, albeit not as dominant over the last 3-4 years. We have won 5 out of 8 at U20 level (ABs 3 out of 8! just making a point, not saying they are equally as important or hard to win) 
Most of these Irish U20 players may never go on to play for Ireland. It could be the last time they play a NZ international team and they have never beaten them before. 
I dont think you can underestimate this given they have never beaten NZ at any level in their history. 
Glad you werent diminshing the win. Let them have their day ;-)</blockquote>
 
Well Ireland Women did beat NZ Women in the RWC at first time of asking.

SammyC

Just finished watching this, NZ tight five should be ashamed of themselves. Most aggressive thing they did all night was during the haka.

Dice

The backs had to try win that one on their own, because outside of Mikaele-Tu'u, the pack added nothing.
 
The scrum has been a big weakness of the U20s for a long time, but it is even worse this year than others.

Dice

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mimic" data-cid="586257" data-time="1465618348">
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I'm 1.8m and I'm definitely taller than him.. I take those stats with a grain of salt..
Maybe it was a typo and it was meant to be 1.74m.. but yes, like i said.. smart player.. just need to wait for him to develop some size and strength
 
 
edit: unless he's grown 10cm.. so i may be wrong D:
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I think he's tracking alright for size and strength at this point of his career. He looked stronger last year than he did the previous year, so there's obvious progress being made there. I saw him earlier this year and he looked bigger up top. He still could use some weight on his lower body though, but that should come once he gets over the leg injuries. With SBW at the Blues now, Faiane doesn't need to be rushed in.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="586748" data-time="1465656627">I just find it funny, because the NZ U20s aren't in any way as dominant on the world stage as the All Blacks are. The "All Blacks 7s" aren't either. Maybe it means something for an Irish team to beat any NZ team, because possibly it will be the only NZ team they'll ever beat, but from a NZ perspective it's odd, because only a few of these NZ U20s players will ever make the All Blacks. 
Edit: by the way, I wasn't diminishing the Irish win, if that's what you were thinking. It was a good and deserved win!</blockquote>
 
I really liked the celebration from the young Paddies. Sure I would've loved a last minute win, but the fact they really fronted and got their first win versus NZ at this level (0-5 I believe) was to be celebrated. 
It doesn't really matter about the future etc, for these guys it's the here and now. 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NTA

Some great skill from both sides in the wet. That try by the Irish 8 down the blind side of the scrum is directly the NZ 9's fault.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dice" data-cid="586878" data-time="1465683106">
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The backs had to try win that one on their own, because outside of Mikaele-Tu'u, the pack added nothing.
 
The scrum has been a big weakness of the U20s for a long time, but it is even worse this year than others.
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Yes. Every time I've watched the U20s in the past few years the scrum has been shit. They got humiliated last night and are deserving of getting the treatment of an AB prop named Keith Murdoch i.e. loaded on a plane and sent home.
 
Not surprising, looking at the team list, the front row is dominated by fuckers from Wellington and Waikato. When did Wellington or Waikato last produce a decent prop? 
 
Robertson should have looked at his props birth certificates and school records and if they weren't born or raised in Ta$man he should have just fucked them off.
 
Seriously - what's fucking wrong with our coaching or selection that we can't produce young props who can hold up the scrum.

Nepia

I was searching for this on Foxtel and couldn't find it ... sounds like I was lucky.

Higgins

Ah but one of the props in particular has some people creaming themselves over his running in the open field skills. Probably already been granted a Wellington Lions contract given the way they hand them out to players either not up to it or yet to prove themselves.

Bovidae

Kautai was brought into the U20s after the Aust tour because he is a strong scrummager. To be fair, the scrum is reasonably stable when he is at TH. The problem is on the other side, and the reserve props who are even worse. Fidow was a huge step down at TH when he came on.
 
NZ has never had a dominant scrum at U20 level, but it's been serviceable.

Higgins

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="586916" data-time="1465689288">
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 Fidow was a huge step down at TH when he came on.
 
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Got it in one. Those of us, obviously not connected to the fishheads that pick teams and award contracts, that have seen him play for his Scots College team the last year or so have known that for a fair (or perhaps fear would be a more apt spelling) while.

Steven Harris

Just want to throw in a few thoughts,i was very fortunate to be in australia recently when the NZ unders 20s played 2 x tests at Bond University on the Gold Coast,i also saw them play the Blues development team before they had left for their 2 x tests in Australia.i was very much under the impression this team would struggle,they strugggled at both set piece lineout and scrum,not being smart after the fact,but i have heard from many coaches over the years,while we have awesomely talented forwards,we dont always have size,many of the Northern Hemisphere teams along with South Africa,have very big packs,we have been fortunate in the past to have very good play makers in positions and not to mention some outstading loose foward trios,last year fopr example,we had Blake Gibson,Mitchell Karpick and Akira Ioane,in the NZ team that won that tournament last year.
 
Akira Ioane was one man recking ball machine.we also had some very classy midfielders in Vince Aso and Jack Goodhue,Geoff Cridge,their were several guys who had played at ITM cup level,whilst their are a some guys that a part of super rugby squads,Trainor,Stephenson and Nock to name a few,they are a very inexperienced teams,in terms of having guys that have played athat higher level.

Toddy

I did watch a 'Fidow' video on Facebook a couple of weeks ago. I just assumed he was a fat 2nd 5. He probably wishes that was the case after his repeated attempts to stand up and cuddle the Irish prop.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Steven Harris" data-cid="586923" data-time="1465690267">
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Just want to throw in a few thoughts,i was very fortunate to be in australia recently when the NZ unders 20s played 2 x tests at Bond University on the Gold Coast,i also saw them play the Blues development team before they had left for their 2 x tests in Australia.i was very much under the impression this team would struggle,they strugggled at both set piece lineout and scrum,not being smart after the fact,but i have heard from many coaches over the years,while we have awesomely talented forwards,we dont always have size,many of the Northern Hemisphere teams along with South Africa,have very big packs,we have been fortunate in the past to have very good play makers in positions and not to mention some outstading loose foward trios,last year fopr example,we had Blake Gibson,Mitchell Karpick and Akira Ioane,in the NZ team that won that tournament last year.
 
Akira Ioane was one man recking ball machine.we also had some very classy midfielders in Vince Aso and Jack Goodhue,Geoff Cridge,their were several guys who had played at ITM cup level,whilst their are a some guys that a part of super rugby squads,Trainor,Stephenson and Nock to name a few,they are a very inexperienced teams,in terms of having guys that have played athat higher level.
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Didn't see any of last year's games, but I think the 2014 team was the one with Damien McKenzie and Tevita Li - and Tom Sanders? I recall the Jaapies making mincemeat of our pack - I can recall thinking Sanders was a bit of a lone wolf forward and our backs keeping us in the game. Still lost.
 
Don't think the scrum can have been as bad as last night's one, because I don't recall thinking that 2014 performance was the most humiliating by an NZ team since the 1999 RWC. Last night's efforts in the scrums were that bad. 
 
Those Irish boys made us look like Australians! :)

Dice

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="586911" data-time="1465688777">
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Ah but one of the props in particular has some people creaming themselves over his running in the open field skills. Probably already been granted a Wellington Lions contract given the way they hand them out to players either not up to it or yet to prove themselves.
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Apparently he's a certain future All Black and superstar in the making.

Immenso Rapido

Awesome. Well done Ireland.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="586720" data-time="1465653449">
There are no future AB props on display here.</blockquote>
I would have said the same thing back in circa 2012 when the baby blacks team with Tuungafasi at tight head were getting minced. 
As someone who pretty much never watches the Blues, I still can't reconcile Ofa as being an AB. 
But then in 2011 I though I was watching a future great, and maybe captaincy potential in TJP. While 5 years later I have him ranked as the worst AB in my time. 
So anything can happen. Especially teaching young props to scrummage. Lowest common denominator stuff ....

bobily

I thought Fidow caused havoc counterrucking a few times. I know he is an awful scrummager at this level, but he is still a year young. If he can really work on things (to a Cruden-esque level) then I think he could be a very good player. Still I wouldn't want him as the starting prop next year (I rate Sione Asi, from what I've seen from him - but Fidow could still make impact from the bench). I definitely think it is too early for him, though and I think they coaches would have been better off selecting Joe Apikotoa, who has played for Wellington, so can probably hold up a scrum a wee bit better.
 
Overall, the issue definitely isn't size. We had a bigger forward pack than the Irish by 6kg per man. The problems were more technical. As someone has stated, most of these guys, in the forwards anyway, haven't played at a higher level, which means they haven't had this fulltime coaching, which some previous teams have had. Apart from Apisai, the only other forwards with ITM Cup experience are Hapakuki Moala-Liava'a and Mitchell Jacobson.
 
In the short-term, I'd like to see Paranihi starting with Kautai. Paranihi seemed like he was capable of holding up the loosehead side of the scrum until Fidow stood up. In the long-term, I'd like to see our forwards, the tight 5 in particular, selected for their setpiece ability. Given the nature of how we play, if we pick the better scrummagers going around, the guys should still have better ball skills than most the guys from other countries.
 
We can basically put out a full team next year (including Jordie Barrett, thankfully) that has played at this level (bolstered by the likes of Ioane, the Umaga-Jensens, Wiseguy Faiane), so I think next year should go a lot better. Hopefully some of them get a bit more experience at ITM Cup level (and even SupeRugby level)

bobily

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="586963" data-time="1465697255">
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I would have said the same thing back in circa 2012 when the baby blacks team with Tuungafasi at tight head were getting minced. 
As someone who pretty much never watches the Blues, I still can't reconcile Ofa as being an AB. 
But then in 2011 I though I was watching a future great, and maybe captaincy potential in TJP. While 5 years later I have him ranked as the worst AB in my time. 
So anything can happen. Especially teaching youn props to scrimmage. Lowest common denominator stuff ....
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Yep, some of the players who have shown themselves to be brilliant at this level just never kicked on. It is hard to gauge much from these games alone, and any of these players, if they work hard could be future All Blacks.

Bones

That's why it's pretty funny to see people touting Barrett as the new AB 10 already.

The Silver Fern

New Zealand under 20