Hurricanes vs Rebels
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
Yup. In the years when the loosies were good the locks were below par.
It's funny how after all these years the recruitment in these areas has always fallen short. Ardie fell in their lap. -
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
Yup. In the years when the loosies were good the locks were below par.
It's funny how after all these years the recruitment in these areas has always fallen short. Ardie fell in their lap.We've generally had very good or excellent loose forwards, very good or excellent 9's, midfielders and wings, a smattering of very good or excellent front row forwards, but predominantly journeymen in the tight 5. That meant we could beat stronger teams like the Saders on a semi-regular basis. But when it came to winning trophy time we were more often than not found out
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Geez I wish our locks were better, they are all competent super players at best. As Crucial says, 10 has been a big problem for Canes as well, I think Morgan may turn out alright, but probably needs a year or 2 to get right on top of game.
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@Crucial I would argue that inexperience in our loose forwards is probably more of the issue than it being a real weakness. It hasn't helped that Flanders and Iose were injured early on in the campaign, but I've felt those that have come in i.e. Howden, Labausher (despite being really young) have put in big shifts for us and haven't looked out of place at all. I think we are actually growing some really strong depth in that department, whether we can keep all the talent though remains to be seen.
I think the biggest issue is that Holland seems like he needs to play Ardie at 8, which means we need to start either Kirifi, or Gibson who are probably the more underwhelming loose forwards in our arsenal. This, along with his continuing support of the very limited Prinsep is why we never really get to see the best of the Canes in this department. (This is probably the biggest frustration as a Canes fan).
Early on in the season, fans were pushing for a Flanders, Savea and Iose combo. Personally I think the best loose forward combo the Canes have is 6. Howden, 7. Savea and 8. Flanders, a combination that I think will be up there with the best in the competition. Whether we actually get to see it though is another question altogether.
The big one for the Canes in the off-season in terms of recruitment is our tight-five (no surprises there). I've been really impressed with Justin Sangster this year and it's been great to see IWL back from injury. I'm sure we will see more of Dominic Bird next season, but at the end of the day we really need to find a top class lock, and another couple of class options in the propping department to help build depth.
Aiden Morgan and Ruben Love are the answer IMO, they just need more time in the saddle. Aiden Morgan is definitely mature beyond his years in the way he goes about things which is probably why he's been able to make the step up to Super Rugby more easier than others. I think the big thing for the Canes is who they pick as their general moving forward. If I had to pick right now, I'd take Morgan and develop Ruben as a fullback who can cover ten. Making that clear early on will determine how good of a side the Canes become in future years as players fully develop. It's highlighted in the below article -
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/its-time-for-the-hurricanes-to-hand-the-keys-to-aidan-morgan/
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Aiden Morgan and Ruben Love are the answer IMO, they just need more time in the saddle. Aiden Morgan is definitely mature beyond his years in the way he goes about things which is probably why he's been able to make the step up to Super Rugby more easier than others. I think the big thing for the Canes is who they pick as their general moving forward. If I had to pick right now, I'd take Morgan and develop Ruben as a fullback who can cover ten.
It reminds me a bit of the situation at the Tahs. Harrison like Love was seen last year as the future 10 but then this year as others got more opportunities (Edmed, Donaldson for Tahs like Morgan for Canes), Harrison is now seen as a 15 who can cover 10.
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@KiwiMurph very true, it's made easier for the Canes as I feel Morgan is the more natural 10 out of the two, whereas Love seems to be more suited to fullback anyway so to me the choice is fairly obvious.
It's just such a crucial decision to get right. i.e. when the Canes had Cruden and Barrett, they ended up choosing Barrett and then Cruden went on to get 2 titles with the Chiefs, versus Barrett getting 1 with the Canes. I'm not saying we are going to lose Love but making that tough selection early on is important for the stability of the team moving forward.
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@Canes4life good post.
I'm not trying to say what the Canes need to be a challenger for a title. I have enough to think about with the Chiefs on that one.
All I am rebuffing is this notion that if it wasn't for the coach you deserve to be much higher. One spot maybe but with that squad over a season any thought that you deserve to be equals with Blues and Saders is nonsense.
Get some class locks and have your young 10s come on and maybe there is a case. -
@Crucial oh totally, the Canes are far from the finished product and they are definitely a cog or two down from that top three, infact I don't think the Canes will get to that state for another 2-3 years pending how players develop, signings etc.
I do like where they are tracking though, similar to the Chiefs, I feel both sides are on an upward trajectory, both teams are playing attractive footy, however they are currently lacking that ruthless edge when you compare them to the likes of the Crusaders and Blues atm.
It will be an interesting quarter final indeed if these two teams collide at the end of next week. Can they go all the way this year? My heart wants to say yes, but my head says no. Hopefully the Canes surprise, or in your case the Chiefs because I really don't want to see Beaudy win it in Blue.
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
Yeah, we're in the position of having the young fella morgan at 10, to say we should drop our expectations because of it is ridiculous, very impressed with the composure he's showing & he has a very experienced 9 playing inside him, not as though we have two young playmakers at 9 & 10.
BB is a very experience 10, but has shown many a time how aimlessly he kicks in general play & has given away a fair few brainless intercept tries because he didn't bother to have a quick look first.Our locks are certainly not a weakness if the right combo are selected... Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are bloody good locks, but our clown of a coach doesn't want to play them together much at all.
Disagree, we could've clearly made the top 4 & that's taking that shocker against MP out of the equation - with our coach not playing our best combo's together enough & playing players out of position it has clearly effected performances... rugby probably more than any other team sport really relies on settled combos to play bloody well as a team.
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@KiwiMurph very true, it's made easier for the Canes as I feel Morgan is the more natural 10 out of the two, whereas Love seems to be more suited to fullback anyway so to me the choice is fairly obvious.
It's just such a crucial decision to get right. i.e. when the Canes had Cruden and Barrett, they ended up choosing Barrett and then Cruden went on to get 2 titles with the Chiefs, versus Barrett getting 1 with the Canes. I'm not saying we are going to lose Love but making that tough selection early on is important for the stability of the team moving forward.
They didn't chose Barrett over Crudent. Cruden chose the Chiefs over the Canes because they parachuted in a Cantab as coach to destabilise the team, which worked, and he had a good working relationship with the Chiefs coach.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
Yeah, we're in the position of having the young fella morgan at 10, to say we should drop our expectations because of it is ridiculous, very impressed with the composure he's showing & he has a very experienced 9 playing inside him, not as though we have two young playmakers at 9 & 10.
BB is a very experience 10, but has shown many a time how aimlessly he kicks in general play & has given away a fair few brainless intercept tries because he didn't bother to have a quick look first.Our locks are certainly not a weakness if the right combo are selected... Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are bloody good locks, but our clown of a coach doesn't want to play them together much at all.
Disagree, we could've clearly made the top 4 & that's taking that shocker against MP out of the equation - with our coach not playing our best combo's together enough & playing players out of position it has clearly effected performances... rugby probably more than any other team sport really relies on settled combos to play bloody well as a team.
You maybe facing a bit of a exodus next season, by the looks with
Scrafton and Goosen off to the NH and the rumour PUJ is off to another franchise. -
@Chris said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
Yeah, we're in the position of having the young fella morgan at 10, to say we should drop our expectations because of it is ridiculous, very impressed with the composure he's showing & he has a very experienced 9 playing inside him, not as though we have two young playmakers at 9 & 10.
BB is a very experience 10, but has shown many a time how aimlessly he kicks in general play & has given away a fair few brainless intercept tries because he didn't bother to have a quick look first.Our locks are certainly not a weakness if the right combo are selected... Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are bloody good locks, but our clown of a coach doesn't want to play them together much at all.
Disagree, we could've clearly made the top 4 & that's taking that shocker against MP out of the equation - with our coach not playing our best combo's together enough & playing players out of position it has clearly effected performances... rugby probably more than any other team sport really relies on settled combos to play bloody well as a team.
You maybe facing a bit of a exodus next season, by the looks with
Scrafton and Goosen off to the NH and the rumour PUJ is off to another franchise.I heard Goosen was going, top winger... the other two would be a big losses too.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Scrafton & Walker-Leawere
Yeah right! Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are international class locks and young Morgan is an equivalent of BB, RM, Loloseo.....
You kind of keep missing the point. Canes are lacking top level class in areas, that over a long season, end up costing table points.
Chiefs are the same. We have 'bubbling under' 10s, need another class loosie and have no back three to speak of. I'm very happy that we ended up where we did on the table but it has been a very shaky ride. -
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Chris said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
Yeah, we're in the position of having the young fella morgan at 10, to say we should drop our expectations because of it is ridiculous, very impressed with the composure he's showing & he has a very experienced 9 playing inside him, not as though we have two young playmakers at 9 & 10.
BB is a very experience 10, but has shown many a time how aimlessly he kicks in general play & has given away a fair few brainless intercept tries because he didn't bother to have a quick look first.Our locks are certainly not a weakness if the right combo are selected... Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are bloody good locks, but our clown of a coach doesn't want to play them together much at all.
Disagree, we could've clearly made the top 4 & that's taking that shocker against MP out of the equation - with our coach not playing our best combo's together enough & playing players out of position it has clearly effected performances... rugby probably more than any other team sport really relies on settled combos to play bloody well as a team.
You maybe facing a bit of a exodus next season, by the looks with
Scrafton and Goosen off to the NH and the rumour PUJ is off to another franchise.I heard Goosen was going, top winger... the other two would be a big losses too.
Scranton is off to Benetton.
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@Nepia said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Canes4life said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@KiwiMurph very true, it's made easier for the Canes as I feel Morgan is the more natural 10 out of the two, whereas Love seems to be more suited to fullback anyway so to me the choice is fairly obvious.
It's just such a crucial decision to get right. i.e. when the Canes had Cruden and Barrett, they ended up choosing Barrett and then Cruden went on to get 2 titles with the Chiefs, versus Barrett getting 1 with the Canes. I'm not saying we are going to lose Love but making that tough selection early on is important for the stability of the team moving forward.
They didn't chose Barrett over Crudent. Cruden chose the Chiefs over the Canes because they parachuted in a Cantab as coach to destabilise the team, which worked, and he had a good working relationship with the Chiefs coach.
Cruden actually left because Rennie was a bit of mentor which sealed the deal.
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Scrafton & Walker-Leawere
Yeah right! Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are international class locks and young Morgan is an equivalent of BB, RM, Loloseo.....
You kind of keep missing the point. Canes are lacking top level class in areas, that over a long season, end up costing table points.
Chiefs are the same. We have 'bubbling under' 10s, need another class loosie and have no back three to speak of. I'm very happy that we ended up where we did on the table but it has been a very shaky ride.Again, I disagree - we have players in the team with good skill sets in all positions, the point is that fool Holland hasn't got a clue when it comes to selecting our best 15.
Naturally when it comes to winning a comp depth off the bench is a huge factor, which is one of the main reasons the Crusaders have won a ton of titles... Canes forward depth off the bench looks pretty good, certainly much better than other years when it comes to props. -
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Scrafton & Walker-Leawere
Yeah right! Scrafton & Walker-Leawere are international class locks and young Morgan is an equivalent of BB, RM, Loloseo.....
You kind of keep missing the point. Canes are lacking top level class in areas, that over a long season, end up costing table points.
Chiefs are the same. We have 'bubbling under' 10s, need another class loosie and have no back three to speak of. I'm very happy that we ended up where we did on the table but it has been a very shaky ride.Again, I disagree - we have players in the team with good skill sets in all positions....
I'm not saying you don't have adequate players. They just aren't the international class ones that some other teams have.
But if you want to continually blame the coach when you have no idea at all what goes on behind the scenes or see combinations in training, in a comp that demands full use of a squad (and beyond this year) without acknowledging that quality of the cattle then carry on with your head in the sand.