Red Cards
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@mariner4life said in Red Cards:
@mariner4life said in Red Cards:
honestly, the judiciary are a lottery. It's bizarre.
not sure they are? seems they are pretty consistent. This is now the 2nd one overturned for pretty much the same reason?
Whose is the second? T he tahs prop who lifted early in the game?
I really feel for the refs; not being supported by the judiciary must be soul destroying.
dude, don't ask me for specifics, some nerd will provide those i am sure
With regards to the refs not being supported, if they are not correct, then their ruling should be overturned. My concern is more that there does not seem to be the communication between the refereeing body, and the judiciary. Both are consistent, just consistently different.
I would be very surprised if there is no communication between the refereeing people and the judiciary people. I am thinking the framework the players, the refs, and judiciary are expected to operate under are just not workable in the real world.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Red Cards:
@mariner4life said in Red Cards:
@mariner4life said in Red Cards:
honestly, the judiciary are a lottery. It's bizarre.
not sure they are? seems they are pretty consistent. This is now the 2nd one overturned for pretty much the same reason?
Whose is the second? T he tahs prop who lifted early in the game?
I really feel for the refs; not being supported by the judiciary must be soul destroying.
dude, don't ask me for specifics, some nerd will provide those i am sure
With regards to the refs not being supported, if they are not correct, then their ruling should be overturned. My concern is more that there does not seem to be the communication between the refereeing body, and the judiciary. Both are consistent, just consistently different.
I would be very surprised if there is no communication between the refereeing people and the judiciary people. I am thinking the framework the players, the refs, and judiciary are expected to operate under are just not workable in the real world.
that's probably a very fair point
imagine being a ref, looking at a screen, with crowd going fucking nuts in the background, conscious of the time being taken, looking at a very short clip being played at very slow speed, captains standing just away saying opposite things. You've got a framework, but it's a little vague, and you know that your decision could decide the entire shape of the game.
fuck that noise.
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@mariner4life then, you make the call, and the Judiciary aint got your back!
Take the decision away from the match day officials except for grub acts (kicking, punching, biting etc)
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@Stargazer I am interested in how many Red cards get overturned or downgraded. Do they ever upgrade from yellow to red?
If the 4 refs on the day only get it right say 60% of the time then 40% of the time a team is disadvantaged unfairly by being a man down for potentially 10 extra minutes and then losing that player.
Should professional teams and athletes have to put up with the incorrect decision being made even 10% of the time if you know what I mean.
I would also be interested if cards have any impact on the outcome of a game. I guess the timing of the card is important here, early reds might have more impact than late for example.
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At amateur level: our competition has had live streaming the last 2 years. Our division is now part of it as well.
A couple of red cards have been overturned because they ref gets a split second to make the decision and overreacted. A couple of clubs have also used the video to try and cite players.
Will be an interesting season
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@Stargazer What match did Aumua get his yellow card in?
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@Stargazer said in Red Cards:
@chimoaus Asafo Aumua is a good example of a player who got yellow and was then cited (and that citing was upheld and resulted in a suspension).
That might be the one where they missed the foul play altogether? But that is a good example where the player is dealt with after the game.
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@Stargazer What match did Aumua get his yellow card in?
I was wrong and @chimoaus is right. Aumua got away with it altogether and didn't get a card at all during the game (against the Highlanders), but he got cited for smashing his shoulder in Gareth Evans' face (immediately resulting in a black eye).
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@Stargazer said in Red Cards:
@Stargazer What match did Aumua get his yellow card in?
I was wrong and @chimoaus is right. Aumua got away with it altogether and didn't get a card at all during the game (against the Highlanders), but he got cited for smashing his shoulder in Gareth Evans' face (immediately resulting in a black eye).
and the officials looked at it!
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I would also be interested if cards have any impact on the outcome of a game. I guess the timing of the card is important here, early reds might have more impact than late for example.
One benefit of the Paddy Ryan card - it happened with under 10 minutes to go so the colour of the card didn't have a impact on that game (yellow vs red)
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Rugby’s 20-minute red card dead in the water after global trial rejected
At the same meetings where Australia was rubber-stamped as the host the 2027 and 2029 World Cups, World Rugby’s powerbrokers voted on law changes for the next year.
Great..
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@Derpus morons.
The law trial has been running for the past two years in the southern hemisphere and is popular; seen as a way to not ruin a game’s spectacle and, in tandem with a strong judiciary, ample punishment. But in the northern hemisphere, the 20-minute red card has been slammed as dangerous and, given red-carded teams are actually winning more than 60 per cent of Super Rugby games, not enough of a punishment to drive behavioural and coaching change.
Maybe they need to recognise it goes further than players and coaches...consistency of applying the framework, both by ref and judiciary.
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I'd be interested to see the stats from the NH. Is it true that there is a bigger disincentive and high collisions have been 'fixed', or is there more use of YCs through more lenient interpretation of mitigations?
Most of our RCs have been for collisions where tacklers have been trying to lessen risk but it is still happening (especially from tall locks). The NH concept that the SH aren't taking things seriously enough is bullshit. Coaches don't want 20 minutes with a player short in a comp of closely fought games.
Refs however seem to be using the 'lesser punishment' as a reason for hard line assessment of mitigating factors. -
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@Derpus so a RC is given, that affects the outcome of a game, the difference between missing or hosting a final for a team, the RC is then overturned by the judiciary...that is a huge financial loss to the team.
Do the team on the side of the 'wrong' RC have grounds to litigate too?
The current model is broken, without a doubt, but simply burying thier heads in the sand and leaving things as they are is pathetic.
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Putting aside arguments of 'ruining the game' for a moment as there is plenty of ammo to fire back about good games that were 14 on 15 (in fact sometimes it improves the game).
The valid aim of this is to reduce incidence of head contact. I can see no evidence that either the 80 or 20 minute RC version is better than than other in achieving this.
There is a changed focus both NH and SH on technique to try and reduce incidents but the fact remains that head contact can and will still happen. It doesn't take much for a planned tackle impact point to move when the ball carrier is trying to evade.
I am firmly in the camp of full RCs for obvious recklessness, clumsiness, laziness or dirty play BUT these debatable situations that hinge on mitigating factors are best analysed off field. Either a 20 minute 'Orange' card and a judicial review or the 20 minute period is spent reviewing the incident by an off-field ref with a decision on whether the player can return or not.
It is these borderline 'accidents' that are the problem.
