All Blacks 2022
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader Pretty much what I'm saying.
Last year we had loose trios like Blackadder, Papalií, Savea where any of those guys could have worn any loosie jersey number and all same-same.
@Kirwan - I bet Kaino in his prime was at least 115kgs. He was clearly bigger than Read, who my first hit gives as 111kgs.
I remember seeing Kaino in Newmarket in a singlet and Shorts a few days before the 2011 WC , he was walking straight towards me holding his baby ,
I was blown away with what a huge athletic speciman he was , a man mountain , easy 112 kg plus would be my guess
Everyone looks big compared to a baby though
or compared to me
I wasn’t going to assume…..Kaino is not that tall though, 6 3 in the old language at the absolute most. Read possibly doing the Ardie Savea hair trick to clearly be the tallest in this pic though.
his stats say 1.96 which translates to 6 foot 4 , but I wasnt so much talking height , he was all thick muscle
It’s actually 6 foot 5 but in any case he was obviously doing the Daniel Braid trick of being measured in his Rugby boots on solid ground. Definitely a solid unit though.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
He has never played as well as he has at super level. Beside he has played ok at test level I reckon. I saying when they pick a team they don't look at forums where a few posters say he has never played well at test level. Hell if we talked about not stepping up Akira wouldn't get a look in, as apart from 1 game he hasn't done squat at test level, I will also say if Akira plays as well as Frizzell did before injury in rest of season he will get picked first. Jacobson has been pretty good this year also, and if he plays as well as Frizzell did at beginning of season.
If you read what I said if he was playing like he was this season. Or do you think we pick players on reputation? -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
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@Dan54 he has played well at super before and he has now been involved in the AB set up since 2018, but hasnt really ever stepped up at Test level asisde from the odd glimpse here and there, just hasnt provided the physicality someone his size should be, and therefore, tends to go missing in the tighter games, which in the past few years, have been the ones we are losing.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
A better indicator is that in 2016, the ABs were comfortable to play Kaino at lock.
Not that it went that well....
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 he has played well at super before and he has now been involved in the AB set up since 2018, but hasnt really ever stepped up at Test level asisde from the odd glimpse here and there, just hasnt provided the physicality someone his size should be, and therefore, tends to go missing in the tighter games, which in the past few years, have been the ones we are losing.
Tell me a 6 who has played well in a test we have lost. We tend to lose tests because we get beaten in tight forwards and that nmeans it awful hard for anyone who is a loosie to show physicallity. Akira has been exactly same, he has one good test where our tighties gave Aus a hiding, so he didn't have to do work in the tight, but I still think if Akira or Jacobson play as well as Frizell did before injury they will go to top of list.. I don't believe we pick players on what they were , but how they playing now. I do think at moment Jacobson would be my pick.
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Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@broughie said in All Blacks 2022:
@Nepia I would prefer Frizzell not mentioned in the same breath as the ABs. May using that physique to carry bags.
Mate if Frizzell is fit and playing like he was this season , he will be first picked at 6.
What?
His Super form has never translated to test level.
The 6 shirt is up for grabs.
Blackadder and Akira are ahead of Frizell. I'd have Papali'i and Jacobson ahead of him too at 6.
Agree, and has he ever actually shown much form at Super level? I mean he's been decent but hasn't consistently dominated like the others you mention. He's just been picked on potential alone, time to move on.
You obviously didn't watch a lot of super rugby especially this year, almos every pundit had him as the best 6 in NZ , and I didn't think it was close. And no I not a Highlanders' man , just someone who watches evrything and everyone.
I watched him miss 6 tackles and make 6 tackles vs the Crusaders - meanwhile in the same game Blackadder made over 20 tackles and only missed 1.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
Not going to get into a DMac debate, but I'm just not convinced by Mo'unga. He's too flaky at Test level for me and struggles under pressure.
Need to start looking at Perofeta to see how he handles being in the AB's and how he goes at Test level.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
I have few qualms with that article.
While I don’t see a place in the starting 15 for DMac, I think he offers more in the 23 than RM.
When RM plays we adjust everyone else’s game to try and cover for him and opponents seek him out. For what returns?
If you watched DMac at 10 last year you would also have noticed him playing a different game to anyone else we have. He is searching for the best placed runner to get us moving forward and not just shovelling. Midfielders and fullbacks love it as they get to run at gaps from deep and know they will get a pass placed in front of them.
I would definitely be hopeful of getting him back in the squad -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
Akira has been exactly same, he has one good test where our tighties gave Aus a hiding
Not sure where this 'one test,' comes from.
Akira has had numerous good tests that really stand out
- Argentina test 2 2020
- Bledisloe test 2 2021
- Bledisloe test 3 2021
He also played well in other tests (he was excellent for 20 mins on debut Bledisloe 3 in Brisbane 2020 when ABs were under the pump until he had to go off as Ofa got red carded) but those in particular stand out.
Now Akira had a chance to nail down the 6 jersey vs Boks last year and failed to do so in both games - hence the jersey is still up for grabs.
The only test i can think of that comes to mind for Frizell where he played well was off the bench vs Fiji test 2 last year when the result was not in the balance. Other than that it's a whole bunch of meh - his ball running in particular just doesn't translate.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
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@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
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BB at 10 with DMac at 15 would have been a damn sight better than Mo'unga at 10 with BB at 15.
But of course that ignores the fact we had one of our best ever 15s - B Smith - in form and in the squad but inexplicably not starting.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
I have few qualms with that article.
While I don’t see a place in the starting 15 for DMac, I think he offers more in the 23 than RM.
When RM plays we adjust everyone else’s game to try and cover for him and opponents seek him out. For what returns?
If you watched DMac at 10 last year you would also have noticed him playing a different game to anyone else we have. He is searching for the best placed runner to get us moving forward and not just shovelling. Midfielders and fullbacks love it as they get to run at gaps from deep and know they will get a pass placed in front of them.
I would definitely be hopeful of getting him back in the squadI liked the way DMac was playing at 10, would like to see him continue to develop his skillset there. It seemed that he was maturing the same was Jordie has where he was not trying to do too much, just playing within himself and waiting for opportunities to present.
I also think Mo'unga can offer a lot off the bench, he comes into his own against tired defenses and has made an impact in that role before.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
Where Damian McKenzie is a better fit than Richie Mo'unga
McKenzie's All Blacks career has languished while Mo'unga's continues, to the point where the Chiefs playmaker simply packed his bags and left for Japan at the end of last year.
Loads of bs in that article. Lots of picking examples to suit his argument. If I could be bothered (and had the time) I could pick huge holes in their so-called analysis. The BB-Dmac combo didn't work at all; history is being re-written here. Also, the Mo'unga-BB combo didn't work because BB kept playing as a 10 at fullback (two captains on a ship won't work either). That's why that combo was ditched, but only after the RWC.
Mo'unga at test level can work with a game plan that suits his style of playing and makes use of his strengths. We haven't seen that gameplan yet though.
It has also been said hundreds of times that we lost that RWC semi because the pack didn't do its job (partially because of stupid selections), but hey, blaming Mo'unga is so easy aye?Hey Ben if you're reading this (I'm pretty sure you're here on the Fern), you're a bit too transparent, but hey, it will give you clicks.
Are you denying that both France and England have set game plans to isolate RM in defence and get over the gain line? That doesn’t help our forwards not the other way around.
Coaches have tried to hide him to no avail and now we are saying that we need big 12s (not really our style) to offer him an out. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew Both DM and RM ( and BB) are players that can really thrive with front foot ball. If they don't have a platform, they get shut down. Every pivot in the game is the same. The French halves look great behind their pack, cripes even Gibson-Park looks like a world beater behind the Irish pack. Sort out the platform first and formost.
While that's true, RM looks way more flaky than BB when he's not getting front-foot ball.
With Jordie a safe option at 15, I'd prefer to have BB at 10 with either RM or DMac providing cover in the 23.
My two biggest concerns with our two 1st 5s at test level, RM crabs across field aimlessly at times and BB’s kicking game is very poor (distance wise and accuracy).
I’m not a huge fan of the game plan that they are either running or being asked to run at AB level.
I still haven’t lost faith in either but both can be exciting but also cause heart in mouth moments too.
DMac at 10, no thanks. I like DMac at fullback, but he could also be a very good winger (waits for incoming)
