Best League to Union convert

taniwharugby

I played League when I was 8, I got man (boy) of the match when Toowoomba visited, then we did a roady and played Glenora Bears and the Manurewa Marlins, I got MOTM in both those fixtures too, got player of the year and was told I'd make the Kiwis one day...I never quite scaled those heights in rugby, although did make the Whangarei divisional side when I was 22, at half back of all positions, so maybe evens.
 
Potentially, I was better than all these fellas mentioned, I just didn't have the opportunities they all did, they all had it easy.

Chris B.

The question is a bit like "Who was the better rugby player - Dan Carter or Richie McCaw"?
 
Answering a slightly different question - undoubtedly, in my mind, the most impressive transformation was Brad Thorn. Pretty much everyone else being mentioned played in the backs - most of them at wing or fullback, where the two games are most alike. That quite a few good players have been able to successfully transfer their run, catch, pass skills successfully from one code to the other isn't surprising.
 
But Brad went from a game where they barely have scrums, don't have lineouts, rucks or mauls - and made those his core duties. In my mind the others played two somewhat different, but similar sports. He played two substantially different sports.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="584625" data-time="1464818717">
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But if SBW was as amazing as you imply he'd have usurped Nonu would he not ?
 
It is really disappointing to realize Robinson wasn't actually that good it's just everyone else was shit.
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If we didn't have our greatest ever 12 playing there is absolutely no doubt SBW would have been in our top side. Saying he isn't a great convert because he couldn't usurp Nonu is a pretty tough benchmark!
 
SBW was outstanding in the RWC, and I am really looking forward to seeing what he will do in the next 3 years. For me, he's as good as Folau in terms of converts.

SabalomG

2011-2015, Cruden was probably the 2nd best first five in world rugby behind Carter (maybe the best if judging solely on form). Would we say that he was only average , considering he was never the first choice when Carter was fit?
 
Ma'a and Conrad is the best midfield combo the game has seen, yet SBW was good enough to be replace one of them for significant periods of time during crucial RWC matches.
 
I don't think being stuck behind Ma'a is a stroke against SBW. If you judge Sonny on his performances (2012, 2015 RWC) you'd say he was world class. His problem is that he hasn't produced that for any considerable amount of time. Once he gets to 45~50 caps, and been the best #12 in NZ for a couple of seasons (a good series against the Lions would help too) then maybe we can say he's the best convert, but until then its has to be Thorn

Chris B.

Michael O'Connor well worth a mention - though he'd be before quite a few's time.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O'Connor_(rugby)'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O'Connor_(rugby)</a>

RoninWC

From the Wallaby/Kangaroo perspective, around the same time as Ricky Stuart was one of my all time favorite league players... <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Gourley' title="Scott Gourley">Scott Gourley</a>.
 
He was also pretty handy at both codes... and by the way, none of the Aussie based Ferners seems to have recalled the original cross-coder - Dally Messenger.

Rembrandt

SBW in 3 years could be a hell of a weapon, thought he was outperforming Nonu just before his Roosters stint and the RWC showed what he is capable of with a bit of time on the field. Exciting times.

Siam

Joe Karam played the 2 codes too, quite well didn't he?

kidcalder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="584668" data-time="1464824084">
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The question is a bit like "Who was the better rugby player - Dan Carter or Richie McCaw"?
 
Answering a slightly different question - undoubtedly, in my mind, the most impressive transformation was Brad Thorn. Pretty much everyone else being mentioned played in the backs - most of them at wing or fullback, where the two games are most alike. That quite a few good players have been able to successfully transfer their run, catch, pass skills successfully from one code to the other isn't surprising.
 
But Brad went from a game where they barely have scrums, don't have lineouts, rucks or mauls - and made those his core duties. In my mind the others played two somewhat different, but similar sports. He played two substantially different sports.
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Excellent analysis of BBB, def shows out of all he had to make most significant adjustments to his game

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="584741" data-time="1464846443">
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Joe Karam played the 2 codes too, quite well didn't he?
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Apparently he wasn't anywhere near as good a league player as he was at union . He only made it as far as Glenora and never played ARL or in the Uk.

kidcalder

Kurt Sherlock was highly regarded as a convert and he came from my High school...
Thought of very high by the Roosters

jegga

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=481'>http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=481</a>
 
Apparently this guy was quite impressive when he switched codes but injuries ended his career. Keith Quinn said he was one of the first modern props , fitter and more mobile which would have been an asset in league.

kiwiinmelb

I remember him switching( Lambert) and the press coming out of sydney was pretty negative to be honest , not sure he got out of reserve grade , 
 
Rugby front rowers generally arent suited to league , guys like Kaino would make good league front rowers , 
 
I remember Karam playing for Glenora , played a few games for Auckland as well , he went ok , 
 
One guy that very rarely gets a mention that was very good, was John Schuster

Tim

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="584762" data-time="1464851404">
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I remember him switching( Lambert) and the press coming out of sydney was pretty negative to be honest , not sure he got out of reserve grade , 
 
Rugby front rowers generally arent suited to league , guys like Kaino would make good league front rowers , 
 
I remember Karam playing for Glenora , played a few games for Auckland as well , he went ok , 
 
One guy that very rarely gets a mention that was very good, was John Schuster 
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Good call. Bloody good rugby player. I assume he went well in league too?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="584762" data-time="1464851404">
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I remember him switching( Lambert) and the press coming out of sydney was pretty negative to be honest , not sure he got out of reserve grade , 
 
Rugby front rowers generally arent suited to league , guys like Kaino would make good league front rowers , 
 
I remember Karam playing for Glenora , played a few games for Auckland as well , he went ok , 
 
One guy that very rarely gets a mention that was very good, was John Schuster 
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You're right .Looks like he did ok moneywise out of Penrtih <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10127948'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10127948</a>
 
Schuster kicked goals when he went to Newcastle didn't he?

kidcalder

I know JK was at the end of his career when he went to the warriors but did he go that bad?
I was overseas so saw bugger all

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="584628" data-time="1464819081">
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I played League when I was 8, I got man (boy) of the match when Toowoomba visited, then we did a roady and played Glenora Bears and the Manurewa Marlins, I got MOTM in both those fixtures too, got player of the year and was told I'd make the Kiwis one day...I never quite scaled those heights in rugby, although did make the Whangarei divisional side when I was 22, at half back of all positions, so maybe evens.
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That resonates hilariously. I was convinced as a young bloke to play for my school in the Commonwealth Bank Cup despite never playing league before. Walked off to the ref and opposition coach congratulating me, strangers clapping me and my coach trying to convince me to give up my girl chasing and bike riding time to instead master my passing.
 
All these years later and he's correct; my passing still needs practise.

Catogrande

Thorn all the way IMO. For all the reasons Chris B stated. He had so much more to change in his game, had to master alien technical aspects that do not apply to anyone else mentioned. To then take these new skills (at not such a young age either) and apply them to ensure you are the No1 pick in the No 1 International team for a prolonged period of time.
 
Just astonishing really.

kiwiinmelb

Thats a great point , Thorn<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="584765" data-time="1464852351">You're right .Looks like he did ok moneywise out of Penrtih <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10127948'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10127948</a> Schuster kicked goals when he went to Newcastle didn't he?</blockquote> yeah and he was a very good league centre

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Sabalom Glitz" data-cid="584674" data-time="1464826840">
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2011-2015, Cruden was probably the 2nd best first five in world rugby behind Carter (maybe the best if judging solely on form). Would we say that he was only average , considering he was never the first choice when Carter was fit?
 
Ma'a and Conrad is the best midfield combo the game has seen, yet SBW was good enough to be replace one of them for significant periods of time during crucial RWC matches.
 
I don't think being stuck behind Ma'a is a stroke against SBW. If you judge Sonny on his performances (2012, 2015 RWC) you'd say he was world class. His problem is that he hasn't produced that for any considerable amount of time. Once he gets to 45~50 caps, and been the best #12 in NZ for a couple of seasons (a good series against the Lions would help too) then maybe we can say he's the best convert, but until then its has to be Thorn
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People on here are saying SBW is the best based on his potential & what they think he'll do in the next 3 years. But then utterly ignoring what, say, Folau will do in those 3 years.
 
Last year pre WC he was pretty fucking average, then at the WC he was a super-sub - an outstanding super sub, but so were Charlie, Vito & Barrett. Is Charlie now one of the worlds best props? Is Vito a world beater because he was so good off the bench & has Read in front of him?
 
I do think he'll be outstanding, but calling him the best switch based on that is like calling Beauden Barrett the all blacks best fullback. I'm not arguing he's not probably going to be one of the top converts, but he hasn't really done shit yet, certainly not compared with Thorn, Robinson, Folau, even Lote Tiquri who (if we are going down that "But SBW had Nonu in his way!!!" bleat) somehow got 60 odd tests & a starting slot at 2 WC despite a wee bit of competition.

The Silver Fern

Best League to Union convert