Hurricanes vs Chiefs
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@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@winger said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@bones said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Watching this game I still don't get the hype from the canes around Love. He strikes me as probably as good as Trask at this stage.
I still wonder about Love. But who else have we got. The other options look a bit 2nd rate
Love definitely has the goods at 10.
Didn't you just agree two posts before that that he needs to grow into the job?
I wouldn't say he 'has the goods'. He has potential and might be the Canes best option from a scant bag of options but he has a long way to go.
He's a young bloke, but you can only improve by getting more game time, he clearly has all the skills as mentioned & certainly doesn't have a long way to go, you can see his composure improving in each game he plays, the bloke needs to be consistently playing at 10 though, not getting stuffed around by that pillock Holland.
That's a bit different to 'he has the goods'
Look, I don't disagree that he has potential. I have said as such for a long time and was baffled at the start of last year when Holland declared him as a wing/fullback (until needs forced his hand). I also agree that he is probably the Canes best current option.
Where I disagree is that he doesn't have a long way to go. He does need time at 10 invested in him. I can't see him maturing into say, AB level discussions for a number of seasons. He's a young guy and with the way players are fast tracked these days he has missed a lot of experience at lower levels.Meant he has the goods to be a very good 10 - for Holland to say he was going to be a wing/fullback was ridiculous... he doesn't have that far to go in terms of Super level though, he needs to start at 10 for the rest of the season, that clown Holland doesn't seem to realize a player plays at his best in a position when he consistently plays in that role.
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@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@winger said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@bones said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Watching this game I still don't get the hype from the canes around Love. He strikes me as probably as good as Trask at this stage.
I still wonder about Love. But who else have we got. The other options look a bit 2nd rate
Love definitely has the goods at 10.
Didn't you just agree two posts before that that he needs to grow into the job?
I wouldn't say he 'has the goods'. He has potential and might be the Canes best option from a scant bag of options but he has a long way to go.
He's a young bloke, but you can only improve by getting more game time, he clearly has all the skills as mentioned & certainly doesn't have a long way to go, you can see his composure improving in each game he plays, the bloke needs to be consistently playing at 10 though, not getting stuffed around by that pillock Holland.
That's a bit different to 'he has the goods'
Look, I don't disagree that he has potential. I have said as such for a long time and was baffled at the start of last year when Holland declared him as a wing/fullback (until needs forced his hand). I also agree that he is probably the Canes best current option.
Where I disagree is that he doesn't have a long way to go. He does need time at 10 invested in him. I can't see him maturing into say, AB level discussions for a number of seasons. He's a young guy and with the way players are fast tracked these days he has missed a lot of experience at lower levels.Meant he has the goods to be a very good 10 - for Holland to say he was going to be a wing/fullback was ridiculous... he doesn't have that far to go in terms of Super level though, he needs to start at 10 for the rest of the season, that clown Holland doesn't seem to realize a player plays at his best in a position when he consistently plays in that role.
The kid joined from school where he played his last year, successfully, as a fullback. That's the basis he was selected on originally and maybe what they wanted (a backup for Jordie).
So I can see why he was being looked at as a 15 but as he had also been a very good 10 at school level until his last year there was an opportunity to develop him in the squad as a 10 as well.
If I was a Canes fan I'd rather see Roigard at 10 than JGB but I dont really care results wise.
My only concern is development for higher honours and I'd like to see Love given a chance to be an option in a few years time. -
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@winger said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Bryn Gatland has been known for clutch plays in his time, and just as his team had to remain calm to close things out, a midfield scrum win saw ball his way, and he reeled off a brilliant touch finder which doubled as a 50-22 and gave the Chiefs the lineout from which they could get the W.I really dislike this rule. Unsure why it was introduced.
In this case, it wouldn't have mattered anyway as we were under penalty advantage at the time. Either way we would have ended up with the ball in your 22.
I don't like the change either though.
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@ploughboy said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@winger if it hadnt been a 50/20 they would have gone back to scrum penalty and ended up in same spot
ha ha, snap.
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@gt12 me too, I hate the goal line drop out even more than the 50/22, which I also hate.
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@taniwharugby said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@gt12 me too, I hate the goal line drop out even more than the 50/22, which I also hate.
Yep. If one had to go I would vote for the Goal line drop out.
I hate that if the attacking team tries to score (which is the aim of the game) they are effectively free kicked against if the grounding can't be confirmed. Why should they lose possession?
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Getting a bit tiring watching the Canes play catch up each week. Might be a good idea to start with the best 15 not leave them on the bench
Love struggled at 15 - I think he has too much there. Overthinks it being a young fella.
Need to keep him at 10.
If Jordie wants to play 12 then who do we play at fullback?
I just realised me and my mates chat more about who Holland picks than the game itself every week. Lol. Sad times.
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Apart from some opportunistic points, to me it looked like the Chiefs were playing better rugby. They were patient, controlled possession and broke down the Canes defence well.
If they had a better functioning lineout and didn't lose the kicking battles, it should've been a thumping, not the edge of the seat finish it was.
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Just on the Jordie at 12 thing I am fairly sure that it was part of the game plan to target him for involvement so that he didn't have chance to observe and adjust to his position. Almost every kick off went directly to him and he actually stopped to think a couple of times what he should be doing as a 12 rather than instinctively as a 15. He never really settled in one spot defensively but wherever he went the Chiefs ran at. He was a magnet (hence his high tackle count). The more he was on the round the better as far as the Chiefs were concerned. The Canes couldn't settle into patterns defensively or have him available for counter attacks.
The few times he did get ball in hand from a traditional positioning he was a danger. His height offers an overhead pass/offload which is a threat and if in space he is a triple threat that you have to cover. (kick, run, pass).
Maybe it was the disruptive targeting of him that had him in unconventional positioning rather than a plan by the Canes.
That ploy won't always work but was good for his first outing. -
I like Jordie at 12 but no one stands out to me as a top 15 in the rest of the squad.
I'd ideally like:
TJ (if he can play like he did against the Chiefs).
Love
Rayasi
PUJ
Sullivan
Goosen
JordieJ Savea unlucky not to start as he's been very good for us this year.
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@crucial I didn’t pick up on that but it makes sense as this was a tactic against RTS and as a result he is broken and injured. In my mind again too small to be a 12. Jordie has good defense and a direct runner and can see him making a good fist at 12, more so than Havilli, who is not our solution at 12.
Is this driven by the AB coaches? If so stick with it. I would rather develop Jordie at 2nd five than DH and then Jordan to FB. So you keep the 2 best rugby players on the field. Although why isn’t there a APB for a second five of proportions of Nonu or SBW?
It is mind boggling that NZ rugby has not openly acknowledge our weakness, which are at 2nd five and center, 8 and perhaps prop and lock and developed a plan moving forward with coordination with the Super franchises. Realize they are independent. We continue to move players around, in this thread Love, and wonder why we don’t have the right people come international time.
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@foobanz said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Getting a bit tiring watching the Canes play catch up each week. Might be a good idea to start with the best 15 not leave them on the bench
Love struggled at 15 - I think he has too much there. Overthinks it being a young fella.
Need to keep him at 10.
If Jordie wants to play 12 then who do we play at fullback?
I just realised me and my mates chat more about who Holland picks than the game itself every week. Lol. Sad times.
I just got back after going down to game , so haven't seen it on tv (which is probably good)
Agree Love didn't look real fluid at 15, thought Jordie was ok at 12 for first game there in a while. TJ played one of his better games too.
Also thought Sam Cane showed just what a bloody good 7 he is.Other thing it confirmed to me is rugby is agame to be watched live, rather than tv.
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@broughie said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial I didn’t pick up on that but it makes sense as this was a tactic against RTS and as a result he is broken and injured. In my mind again too small to be a 12. Jordie has good defense and a direct runner and can see him making a good fist at 12, more so than Havilli, who is not our solution at 12.
Is this driven by the AB coaches? If so stick with it. I would rather develop Jordie at 2nd five than DH and then Jordan to FB. So you keep the 2 best rugby players on the field. Although why isn’t there a APB for a second five of proportions of Nonu or SBW?
It is mind boggling that NZ rugby has not openly acknowledge our weakness, which are at 2nd five and center, 8 and perhaps prop and lock and developed a plan moving forward with coordination with the Super franchises. Realize they are independent. We continue to move players around, in this thread Love, and wonder why we don’t have the right people come international time.
Those big twelves aren't found easily. It took Nonu years to build the skillset past being a hard runner. SBW was just a skilled freak and got shoehorned in there but he also didn't offer a triple threat like Nonu did (or Jordie could). Then you need some rugby smarts as well and JB doesn't really convince me in that area.
I would love to see a fit TUJ challenging for 12. I think a TUJ/ALB midfield would be very good.As for development I guess the big plan is that we dont want our super teams to be constrained by AB wants/needs. That would be terrible for innovation, player development and coach development. Are you seriously saying that the teams should be told what to do by Foster?
The ABs do try to fill those spots. But they have to take a chance then give players time (unless they are pants). Kirifi is an example there. Investment in Vaii and Lord looks promising.
I do get that it must be frustrating when they take a punt on someone like PUJ who then gets shoved out by his franchise coach.
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@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@crucial said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@nzbloke said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@winger said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@bones said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Watching this game I still don't get the hype from the canes around Love. He strikes me as probably as good as Trask at this stage.
I still wonder about Love. But who else have we got. The other options look a bit 2nd rate
Love definitely has the goods at 10.
Didn't you just agree two posts before that that he needs to grow into the job?
I wouldn't say he 'has the goods'. He has potential and might be the Canes best option from a scant bag of options but he has a long way to go.
He's a young bloke, but you can only improve by getting more game time, he clearly has all the skills as mentioned & certainly doesn't have a long way to go, you can see his composure improving in each game he plays, the bloke needs to be consistently playing at 10 though, not getting stuffed around by that pillock Holland.
That's a bit different to 'he has the goods'
Look, I don't disagree that he has potential. I have said as such for a long time and was baffled at the start of last year when Holland declared him as a wing/fullback (until needs forced his hand). I also agree that he is probably the Canes best current option.
Where I disagree is that he doesn't have a long way to go. He does need time at 10 invested in him. I can't see him maturing into say, AB level discussions for a number of seasons. He's a young guy and with the way players are fast tracked these days he has missed a lot of experience at lower levels.Meant he has the goods to be a very good 10 - for Holland to say he was going to be a wing/fullback was ridiculous... he doesn't have that far to go in terms of Super level though, he needs to start at 10 for the rest of the season, that clown Holland doesn't seem to realize a player plays at his best in a position when he consistently plays in that role.
The kid joined from school where he played his last year, successfully, as a fullback. That's the basis he was selected on originally and maybe what they wanted (a backup for Jordie).
So I can see why he was being looked at as a 15 but as he had also been a very good 10 at school level until his last year there was an opportunity to develop him in the squad as a 10 as well.
If I was a Canes fan I'd rather see Roigard at 10 than JGB but I dont really care results wise.
My only concern is development for higher honours and I'd like to see Love given a chance to be an option in a few years time.Thanks for the info about him playing at 15 and 10.
Yeah, it's about the development of players coming through, & how well they can handle the real pressure situations... would be good if Love was in the mix for the black jersey a few years down the track.
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@crucial agree with everything you said. I realize the AB coaches can not dictate to the franchises. Perhaps that a good thing too because Foster is in charge but PUJ getting pushed out seems a waste to me and frustrating as you suggest. Nonu had to develop his skills but at least he was allowed to in one position. Our players seem to have to play multiple positions and sometime without specializing. Perhaps the modern game but . .
Maybe we can hire Nonu to groom the next 2nd five with certain criteria.
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@broughie said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
Maybe we can hire Nonu to groom the next 2nd five with certain criteria.
I hope he gets into coaching. Wayne Smith said he has a very good rugby brain and he also knows what it takes to work on skills to master them. I think he'd be an excellent addition to any team.
