Chris Gayle. Stay Classy
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<p>Good read, thanks Gollum. Context is all.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="582648" data-time="1464168426">
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<p>Yes</p>
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<p>And your outrage or definitions of sexism doesn't have rights...but carry on anyway</p>
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<p>My outrage and definitions of sexism do have rights! I have the right to be outraged. I have the right to criticise sexism. I don't have the right to expect everyone to be outraged over the same things or have the same definitions of sexism. I don't know exactly how I was trying to enforce my outrage or definition on anyone else. I actually think the punishment Gayle received was too harsh.</p>
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<p>If you can point out to me where Gayle has fully apologised then I will immediately retract my critcism of Gayle for not apologising properly.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="582650" data-time="1464168843"><p>Good read, thanks Gollum. Context is all.</p></blockquote>
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To hell with context, I want something to be outraged about. -
<p>Well, Gollum, I read that and it didn't really change my opinion. I have criticised Gayle for displaying a specific instance of sexism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh, dear someone is accusing me of sexism because I made sexist remarks on TV. It must be because they are racist! Look at John Terry. Plenty of white people get roundly criticised when they act like dickheads. Playing the race card is a hardly a defence.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Does growing up among gang violence give you a 'sexism pass' or something? Being beaten by your father? Don't get me wrong. These are things which people shouldn't have to go through. We should hold a sense of admiration that someone has been able to overcome such things and become a professional sportsman. I'm just scratching my head and wondering what the hell it has to do with sexism.</p>
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<p>I say this so often, two things can be true at once. Someone can make sexist comments and be a fantastic person otherwise. They aren't mutually exclusive.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582680" data-time="1464172717">
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<p>Well, Gollum, I read that and it didn't really change my opinion. I have criticised Gayle for displaying a specific instance of sexism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh, dear someone is accusing me of sexism because I made sexist remarks on TV. It must be because they are racist! Look at John Terry. Plenty of white people get roundly criticised when they act like dickheads. Playing the race card is a hardly a defence.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Does growing up among gang violence give you a 'sexism pass' or something? Being beaten by your father? Don't get me wrong. These are things which people shouldn't have to go through. We should hold a sense of admiration that someone has been able to overcome such things and become a professional sportsman. I'm just scratching my head and wondering what the hell it has to do with sexism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I say this so often, two things can be true at once. Someone can make sexist comments and be a fantastic person otherwise. They aren't mutually exclusive.</p>
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<p>I didn't read it & think "well I thought he was a tool & now I like him" I just thought "well, less of a tool than I thought". The bit that came through for me in that was that he simply see's no areas where you have to take sex off the table. IE he is constantly & consistently open re sex. He thinks a woman is hot, he tells her she is hot. He then is amazed when people say "whoa!". That is a very Jamacian thing. Same deal in Italy where any woman who's been there has been eye fucked by the whole country & offered out by half of it.</p>
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<p>The 200 word stuff article was a straight out beat up as you got no sense of the interview at all. Left out the bits where he talks about his wife in a good way -</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"Berridge, he says, is “a strong characterâ€. “Very strong. A lot of people put things in her face and say, ‘Chris is this, and Chris is doing that,’ all sorts of things. But she’s very strong.â€</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And included the bit where she better cook what I want.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Same right through. Made it sound like he just went at the interviewer but left out stuff like -</p>
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<p>"When I rebuke him, he squawks, lifting his shoulders in ham offence: “But it’s only fair! Why do you get to ask all the questions?†....As it turns out, his pantomime bad boy is a bit of a buffer.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The serialised bits fromn the book were even better as there was far less bluster & bullshit. I completely agree he is a sexist, not too bright, party boy - but so is almost every major sportsman, Wayne Rooney did hookers, John Terry did his mates wife, everyones current darlings Liecester city started their year videoing themselves tag teaming Thai hookers. So it seems a bit churlish to single him out. I'm not sold its as much to do with race as he thinks, but I do think Andrew Flintoff or Warney would have got away with it... </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582672" data-time="1464171846">
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<p>My outrage and definitions of sexism do have rights! I have the right to be outraged. I have the right to criticise sexism. I don't have the right to expect everyone to be outraged over the same things or have the same definitions of sexism. I don't know exactly how I was trying to enforce my outrage or definition on anyone else. I actually think the punishment Gayle received was too harsh.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you can point out to me where Gayle has fully apologised then I will immediately retract my critcism of Gayle for not apologising properly.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Yeah sure, I just seized on the opportunity to paraphrase our thread "your ideas don't have rights" - no big deal and I enjoyed typing it :)</p>
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<p>Gayle made apologies on camera and apparently to Mel a few days after everyone lost their shit and were reminded that 2016 social conditioning meant that EVERYONE had to find the lines <span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">“I’m here just to see your eyes for the first time … Hopefully we can win this game and we can have a drink afterwards. Don’t blush, baby.</span>" more offensive than bombing babies in Syria</p>
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<p>I won't site the apology because I can't be arsed facilitating outraged people who disclaim "I won't be outraged if he apologised, but that won't stop me calling him sexist before the facts are presented to me...and then he magically won't be sexist" (edit: you will retract your statement that he didn't apologise - don't bother mate Gayle won't care)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>More smiley's
we simply disagree on what propels outrage - all good</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="582697" data-time="1464182017">
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<p>Yeah sure, I just seized on the opportunity to paraphrase our thread "your ideas don't have rights" - no big deal and I enjoyed typing it :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle made apologies on camera and apparently to Mel a few days after everyone lost their shit and were reminded that 2016 social conditioning meant that EVERYONE had to find the lines <span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">“I’m here just to see your eyes for the first time … Hopefully we can win this game and we can have a drink afterwards. Don’t blush, baby.</span>" more offensive than bombing babies in Syria</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I won't site the apology because I can't be arsed facilitating outraged people who disclaim "I won't be outraged if he apologised, but that won't stop me calling him sexist before the facts are presented to me...and then he magically won't be sexist" (edit: you will retract your statement that he didn't apologise - don't bother mate Gayle won't care)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>More smiley's we simply disagree on what propels outrage - all good</p>
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<p>Well, again. Every apology I have heard Gayle make was insufficient. I have heard several apologies from Gayle like the one you posted in this thread. The problem was it wasn't a full and proper apology and I have already outlined why I thought it wasn't. The way he has acted since then by saying that part of the reason there was such a big reaction was because of racism takes away from the genuineness of any apology.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In that video they were saying 'your ideas don't have rights to not be challenged.' I'm more than happy to be challenged.</p>
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<p>EDIT: here was Gayle's original apologies:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle said it was "a simple joke ... that went out of proportion" and offered a begrudging apology.</p>
<p>"There wasn't anything meant to be disrespectful or offensive to Mel," he said after arriving back in Melbourne on Tuesday.</p>
<p>"If she felt that way, I'm really sorry for that. There wasn't any harm meant in that particular way, to harm any particular person in any particular way like that."</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/chris-gayle-apologises-for-comments-to-mel-mclaughlin/7067750'>http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/chris-gayle-apologises-for-comments-to-mel-mclaughlin/7067750</a></p>
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<p>There is no way that is a proper apology. A proper apology would say something like 'although I thought my comments were in jest and no harm was intended, i realise i caused a high level of distress to Mel Laughlin. I realise now that my comments were inappropriate and demeaned Mel's worth as a presented. I should not have put any woman trying to do her job in such an uncomfortable position. For this I apologise.' Something like that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, again, if this isn't the proper apology I would like to see where it happens. Gayle has apologised twice that I have seen and neither has been a proper apology.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="582691" data-time="1464176140">
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<p>I didn't read it & think "well I thought he was a tool & now I like him" I just thought "well, less of a tool than I thought". The bit that came through for me in that was that he simply see's no areas where you have to take sex off the table. IE he is constantly & consistently open re sex. He thinks a woman is hot, he tells her she is hot. He then is amazed when people say "whoa!". That is a very Jamacian thing. Same deal in Italy where any woman who's been there has been eye fucked by the whole country & offered out by half of it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The 200 word stuff article was a straight out beat up as you got no sense of the interview at all. Left out the bits where he talks about his wife in a good way -</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"Berridge, he says, is “a strong characterâ€. “Very strong. A lot of people put things in her face and say, ‘Chris is this, and Chris is doing that,’ all sorts of things. But she’s very strong.â€</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And included the bit where she better cook what I want.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Same right through. Made it sound like he just went at the interviewer but left out stuff like -</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"When I rebuke him, he squawks, lifting his shoulders in ham offence: “But it’s only fair! Why do you get to ask all the questions?†....As it turns out, his pantomime bad boy is a bit of a buffer.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The serialised bits fromn the book were even better as there was far less bluster & bullshit. I completely agree he is a sexist, not too bright, party boy - but so is almost every major sportsman, Wayne Rooney did hookers, John Terry did his mates wife, everyones current darlings Liecester city started their year videoing themselves tag teaming Thai hookers. So it seems a bit churlish to single him out. I'm not sold its as much to do with race as he thinks, but I do think Andrew Flintoff or Warney would have got away with it... </p>
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<p>Shane Warne was one of the most controversial athletes in the history of the sport. He was lambasted, fined and banned multiple times. I think that flies directly contrary to what Gayle was saying.</p> -
<p>you'd have to say with the additional comments in the OP, that any apology would just be lip service anyway as this is just the way he is and isn't sorry for anything at all.</p>
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<p>Fucken hell hydro11, one would be mistaken for thinking he owed you an apology........</p>
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<p>OUTSTANDING short form player, first name down in a World 11. Also a very good test batsman too which is easy to forget.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lives a "Gangsta" lifestyle most could only dream about, vilified and dragged over the coals for saying a few dumb things. Whether this is racism or not is up in the air.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Great to read the entire article and get a few quotes that are actually in his favour for a bit of balance.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="582723" data-time="1464211103">
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<p>Fucken hell hydro11, one would be mistaken for thinking he owed you an apology........</p>
<p> </p>
<p>OUTSTANDING short form player, first name down in a World 11. Also a very good test batsman too which is easy to forget.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lives a "Gangsta" lifestyle most could only dream about, vilified and dragged over the coals for saying a few dumb things. Whether this is racism or not is up in the air.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Great to read the entire article and get a few quotes that are actually in his favour for a bit of balance.</p>
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<p>He doesn't owe me anything. All I'm saying is that he made a sexist comment and he didn't apologise for it properly. That's all I'm saying. No more, no less. I don't think gayle should have been fined $10,000 either. All I'm saying is that it is silly to say Gayle has fully apologised when he clearly hasn't and justifies his actions by crying racism and Jamaican culture.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle does not have to apologise to me. However, if you make sexist comments and you do not properly apologise for making sexist comments then it is far enough for people to observe this and criticise you for making sexist comments.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582727" data-time="1464212088">
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<p>He doesn't owe me anything. All I'm saying is that he made a sexist comment and he didn't apologise for it properly. That's all I'm saying. No more, no less. I don't think gayle should have been fined $10,000 either. All I'm saying is that it is silly to say Gayle has fully apologised when he clearly hasn't and justifies his actions by crying racism and Jamaican culture.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle does not have to apologise to me. However, if you make sexist comments and you do not properly apologise for making sexist comments then it is far enough for people to observe this and criticise you for making sexist comments.</p>
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<p>Some might say he's not obliged to apologise at all. He said it was a joke and "she knew that".......I don't recall her coming out saying how outraged she was but the PC brigade got on their high horses really quick smart as they always do.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In terms of first name down in a World 11 for 20/20s um, yes he would. Not tests and probably not ODIs but if you can genuinely name a better batsman in the shortest form to face the first ball than him then I'm all ears.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="582730" data-time="1464212550">
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<p>Some might say he's not obliged to apologise at all. He said it was a joke and "she knew that".......I don't recall her coming out saying how outraged she was but the PC brigade got on their high horses really quick smart as they always do.</p>
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<p>In terms of first name down in a World 11 for 20/20s um, yes he would. Not tests and probably not ODIs.</p>
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<p>I agree with you! He shouldn't have to apologise at all. All I'm saying is that I have a right to judge him on that specific action if he chooses not to apologise. Why does Mel have to come out and be outraged? You could see how uncomfortable she was in the interview. Don't you think Mel's employers might be unhappy if she came out as outraged? Regardless, even if she was okay with it, Gayle's actions gave the impression that it is okay to ask out a woman when she is trying to do her job which is a dick move.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle wouldn't be anywhere near first name down. He has been absolute horseshit in the 2016 IPL, played only one innings of note at the WT20 and was shit in Australia too. The first name down is obviously Mitchell Starc. Kohli, deVilliers, Dhoni (although Butler is pretty good), dre Rus and maybe McCullum are all ahead of Gayle. Gayle probably just keeps David Warner out of the side.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582746" data-time="1464217320">
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<p>I agree with you! He shouldn't have to apologise at all. All I'm saying is that I have a right to judge him on that specific action if he chooses not to apologise. Why does Mel have to come out and be outraged? You could see how uncomfortable she was in the interview. Don't you think Mel's employers might be unhappy if she came out as outraged? Regardless, even if she was okay with it, <strong>Gayle's actions gave the impression that it is okay to ask out a woman when she is trying to do her job which is a dick move.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle wouldn't be anywhere near first name down. He has been absolute horseshit in the 2016 IPL, played only one innings of note at the WT20 and was shit in Australia too. The first name down is obviously Mitchell Starc. Kohli, deVilliers, Dhoni (although Butler is pretty good), dre Rus and maybe McCullum are all ahead of Gayle. <strong>Gayle probably just keeps David Warner out of the side.</strong></p>
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<p>First bold: It is? Really? How the fuck do you meet people these days? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Second bold: There's your redemption, right there. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582750" data-time="1464217695">
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<p>First bold: It is? Really? How the fuck do you meet people these days? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Second bold: There's your redemption, right there. </p>
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<p>If you are at the supermarket and ask out the checkout girl, you are a dick. The checkout girl has no power. She is at work and the customer is always right. What could Mel do? Tell Gayle to 'get fucked' on live television? Slap him? No she couldn't do that because she was working and had a job to do.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582746" data-time="1464217320">
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<p>I agree with you! He shouldn't have to apologise at all. <strong>All I'm saying is that I have a right to judge him on that specific action if he chooses not to apologise</strong>. Why does Mel have to come out and be outraged? You could see how uncomfortable she was in the interview. Don't you think Mel's employers might be unhappy if she came out as outraged? Regardless, even if she was okay with it, Gayle's actions gave the impression that it is okay to ask out a woman when she is trying to do her job which is a dick move.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Gayle wouldn't be anywhere near first name down. He has been absolute horseshit in the 2016 IPL, played only one innings of note at the WT20 and was shit in Australia too. The first name down is obviously Mitchell Starc. Kohli, deVilliers, Dhoni (although Butler is pretty good), dre Rus and maybe McCullum are all ahead of Gayle. Gayle probably just keeps David Warner out of the side.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>He shouldn't have to but you judge him all the same ? I don't really get that.... </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So he's not the absolute first name but he still makes the team right ? It's a batsman's game so depending on which discipline you favour then it could well be Starc or him I'll give you that but saying he "just" keeps Warner out is ridiculous given what he brings to a team when on song.....which is often. The "innings of note" just happened to be a hundred too which is a great achievement in any form of the game but have a look at how many excellent batsmen can't even get them in T20s ?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582752" data-time="1464217985">
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<p>If you are at the supermarket and ask out the checkout girl, you are a dick. The checkout girl has no power. She is at work and the customer is always right. What could Mel do? Tell Gayle to 'get fucked' on live television? Slap him? No she couldn't do that because she was working and had a job to do.</p>
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<p>I'm not sure how you've been turned down in the past, but there are certainly levels between "yes" and "fuck off creep" slap </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582756" data-time="1464218177">
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<p>I'm not sure how you've been turned down in the past, but there are certainly levels between "yes" and "fuck off creep" slap </p>
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<p>M4L would definitely know this from his formative years too hydro11 so don't even bother arguing his expertise in this.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="582752" data-time="1464217985">
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<p><strong>If you are at the supermarket and ask out the checkout girl, you are a dick</strong>. The checkout girl has no power. She is at work and the customer is always right. What could Mel do? Tell Gayle to 'get fucked' on live television? Slap him? No she couldn't do that because she was working and had a job to do.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>really? Why?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>She can say thanks but no thanks....</p>
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<p>Mel did pretty much all she could, looked embarrassed by it...now I agree Gayle comes across as an arrogant twat who doesn't really give a shit what people think and his apology was meaningless, not sure on your angle here.</p>
