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@gt12 said in British Politics:
Boris look like he is fighting them off in PMQs right now.
Didn't see the point in watching it today as was expecting the same old same old.
Looks like I was right & wrong. Tory MP defecting to Labour, Conservative MP's telling Boris he must go. Crazy stuff.
Had to agree with one comment. Boris is trying to convince the country he's stupid, not a liar.
And in amongst this, apparently Blackford stood up and demanded Boris resign!! Well I never!!
Very interesting couple of years coming up ..
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@gt12 said in British Politics:
Typically, thing got a bit bloodier after I stopped watching.
What do you reckon? I don't think anyone is in the position to push him out but I'm 10,000 miles away and just guessing.
It's still two years to the next GB election - there is a lot that can happen in those two years.
I think it's inevitable that Boris will be pushed by his party. He's clearly not going anywhere and is now banking on some ridiculous strategy to save his arse that I cannot get my head around. Sunak is the gold mine but I think he's much better off in the chancellors position. The problem at the moment is trying to reconcile conservative thinking with current post-pandemic fiscal positions. How can you raise taxes, continually try and control the population and be the conservative party? We are in the odd position of Labour fighting for Conservative values, whilst the Tories are becoming borderline socialists - and doing a piss poor job of it.
I'm not entirely sure that this current bunch is the right mob to turn it around. Yes, there are a few diamonds in there who can change things, but does anybody trust them? Not sure they do. The Conservatives need a 100% ground up complete overhaul.
The mismanagement of tax payers funds are a huge issue. The funding that goes into the NHS doesn't come out with the right product. It's bloated, backward thinking, fire fighting and in a lot of ways, arrogant. The coalface workers are brilliant, no question. But continual hiring of diversity officers, shithouse funding allocations & bloated middle management is pathetic. And yet, all the NHS doctors do is cry about funding - continuously. The second big thing to consider is the railways. HS2 and loads of trains are not required, and shouldn't be paid for. Union power though is very very strong. They need to sack 25% of the workforce minimum, but how can you do that? How do you sack a 55 year old 30 year rail worker who has no skills for anything else? Really tricky.
So I think it's up to Starmer. IF he continues to purge the left, and Corbyn sets up his own party & takes the crazy lefties with them, then they are at risk of splitting the Labour vote. However, they will be in a great position to take a lot of the blue, including my, vote.
My prediction is that Boris goes & a Tony Blairish style Labour gets in.
But there are far better UK Politics experts on this board than me - I'm merely a pup.
EDIT. This is what Starmer is up against.
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@gt12 said in British Politics:
Typically, thing got a bit bloodier after I stopped watching.
What do you reckon? I don't think anyone is in the position to push him out but I'm 10,000 miles away and just guessing.
Boris Johnson has been seen through, finally - I thought he was a dead-man-walking (for say 3-5 months) but today "elder statesman" David Davies put a real knife in him at PMQs - far more a significant a signal than that newbie MP I've never heard of joining Labour today. David Davies is Conservative to the core, MP since under Thatcher, was a senior (Brexit!) Minister under May etc and his voice will be heard loud and clear. He said he hasn't put in a no-confidence letter ... clear implication after what he said today being "yet". Once he does that publically, it will be a signal for 10-20+ to follow the next few days. All about timing now
I think there's at three who could push Johnson out (Truss or Sunak, vs Hunt) but the timing is really bad. Waves of bad news to come ... Sue Grey's report, Conservatives will get destroyed at the local elections in May, no doubt more stuff to come out of #10, inflation and inflation/cost of living etc. I thought they'd wait until after local elections but now I think they can't wait that long ...
When you hear that Gove (slimy as hell, zero wider appeal) or Priti Patel even being talked of for leadership you know the Tories need a complete reset as Johnson gutted the centrist "One World Conservative" movement. It's no longer "if" 54 votes will happen to trigger a vote of no-confidence will happen now, more about strategic thinking on "when"
... I reckon Sunak will be the next leader/PM simply as he had the least baggage
Next election: Starmer may be bland but he's not stupid. I reckon we'll see a lot of strategic voting next election - Labour (if smart) will have a behind-the-scenes agreement where they field candidates in electorates where LibDem are #2 to the Tories, but will put in zero effort/resources in those seats, Like the last by-election here which the LibDems won with a huge swing
... a Labour-LibDem coalition moving way back to the centre is my best guess
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Seems like chaos again this morning with claims of blackmail by the Whips, headlining in both the Telegraph and the Guardian
Also reported was that between three and seven no confidence letters were withdrawn overnight - the Telegraph seems to have an inside line on the numbers
My own take - it was getting too close to the 54 needed and wiser heads are now saying "cool it", likely because neither the main candidates nor the party grandees really want a leadership competition until all the sh*t has played out, maybe after the May local election results
Just amazing politics
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@l_n_p said in British Politics:
Next election: Starmer may be bland but he's not stupid.
I disagree. As a politician he's often shown he's as thick as mince.
Remember his Brexit policy? "Respect" the referendum result by negotiating a deal which mimicked staying in the EU as much as possible, put that deal to the public in a second referendum with the option to Remain and then campaign against the deal he'd just negotiated. Political masterstroke that.
Then yesterday he managed to build unity in a Conservative party tearing itself apart by his cack-handed "look at me" showmanship over Wakeford's defection. Real genius.
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@l_n_p said in British Politics:
Seems like chaos again this morning with claims of blackmail by the Whips, headlining in both the Telegraph and the Guardian
Also reported was that between three and seven no confidence letters were withdrawn overnight - the Telegraph seems to have an inside line on the numbers
My own take - it was getting too close to the 54 needed and wiser heads are now saying "cool it", likely because neither the main candidates nor the party grandees really want a leadership competition until all the sh*t has played out, maybe after the May local election results
Just amazing politics
Anything that comes out of Wakeford's mouth now can be taken with a pinch of salt. He's been one of the more scathing MP's of both Labour & the need for by-elections when MP's change their political party.
As for the talk of bullying ... well, they are called whips. Think about it.
I personally don't believe the blackmail part of it. I think facts were probably pointed out. That if you are part of the conservative party you have a greater say in where the funding goes, as opposed to being part of the opposition.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@l_n_p said in British Politics:
Seems like chaos again this morning with claims of blackmail by the Whips, headlining in both the Telegraph and the Guardian
Also reported was that between three and seven no confidence letters were withdrawn overnight - the Telegraph seems to have an inside line on the numbers
My own take - it was getting too close to the 54 needed and wiser heads are now saying "cool it", likely because neither the main candidates nor the party grandees really want a leadership competition until all the sh*t has played out, maybe after the May local election results
Just amazing politics
Anything that comes out of Wakeford's mouth now can be taken with a pinch of salt. He's been one of the more scathing MP's of both Labour & the need for by-elections when MP's change their political party.
As for the talk of bullying ... well, they are called whips. Think about it.
I personally don't believe the blackmail part of it. I think facts were probably pointed out. That if you are part of the conservative party you have a greater say in where the funding goes, as opposed to being part of the opposition.
Yep, saw a tweet from 'Young Labour' saying Wakeford is not welcome.
Consistently voted against Labour policies.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Anything that comes out of Wakeford's mouth now can be taken with a pinch of salt. He's been one of the more scathing MP's of both Labour & the need for by-elections when MP's change their political party.
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
.Yep, saw a tweet from 'Young Labour' saying Wakeford is not welcome.
Makes you wonder if Starmer would have been wiser to tell him he wasn't welcome. It's not as if the parliamentary arithmetic is going to bring Labour any closer to power.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
Anything that comes out of Wakeford's mouth now can be taken with a pinch of salt. He's been one of the more scathing MP's of both Labour & the need for by-elections when MP's change their political party.
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
.Yep, saw a tweet from 'Young Labour' saying Wakeford is not welcome.
Makes you wonder if Starmer would have been wiser to tell him he wasn't welcome. It's not as if the parliamentary arithmetic is going to bring Labour any closer to power.
Definitely
That's why Starmer isn't as smart as he thinks he is
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Good summary in the Times today by the political editor of the Spectator
Very interesting suggestion in it that Labour deliberately timed Wakefords crossover to actually rally support for Johnson, suggestion being Labour see keeping Johnson as PM as advantageous
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@l_n_p said in British Politics:
Good summary in the Times today by the political editor of the Spectator
Very interesting suggestion in it that Labour deliberately timed Wakefords crossover to actually rally support for Johnson, suggestion being Labour see keeping Johnson as PM as advantageous
Very interesting
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@l_n_p said in British Politics:
Good summary in the Times today by the political editor of the Spectator
Very interesting suggestion in it that Labour deliberately timed Wakefords crossover to actually rally support for Johnson, suggestion being Labour see keeping Johnson as PM as advantageous
I acknowledge the right wing aspect of the spectator but I still think it’s the most thoughtful publication out there.
Really challenges the narrative.
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More trouble for Boris as the Met Police are to investigate Covid breaches at No10 and across Whitehall.
This from the Beeb:-
The Metropolitan Police have launched an investigation into parties held in Downing Street during the coronavirus pandemic.
Commissioner Cressida Dick said the force was looking into "potential breaches of Covid-19 regulations" in No 10 and across Whitehall over the past two years.
She said the Met would "police without fear or favour" and provide updates "at significant points" in the investigation.
The news comes after fresh allegations came to light over an event held for the PM's birthday held in the Cabinet Room on 19 June 2020.Can he survive?
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@catogrande said in British Politics:
More trouble for Boris as the Met Police are to investigate Covid breaches at No10 and across Whitehall.
This from the Beeb:-
The Metropolitan Police have launched an investigation into parties held in Downing Street during the coronavirus pandemic.
Commissioner Cressida Dick said the force was looking into "potential breaches of Covid-19 regulations" in No 10 and across Whitehall over the past two years.
She said the Met would "police without fear or favour" and provide updates "at significant points" in the investigation.
The news comes after fresh allegations came to light over an event held for the PM's birthday held in the Cabinet Room on 19 June 2020.Can he survive?
Meanwhile, Putin pisses himself laughing. Although, this should be more of an EU problem now than Britain really.
Honestly don't give a fuck about these parties anymore. Not because of the one rule for them / us part, it's simply because one party breaks the rules, the rest are just the same. Actually suspect the longer the media / opposition goes on about them, the more the public is likely to turn back to Boris.
There are simply much bigger issues which must be dealt with.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Actually suspect the longer the media / opposition goes on about them, the more the public is likely to turn back to Boris.
I'm sick of it as well, but I get the feeling it's the media on a campaign to oust Boris, so they're not going to stop coming up with covid breaches and sacking off important news until he's gone. It's the only sense I can make out of this constant barrage of bullshit.
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I'm the same but agree that it looks like this is not going away anytime soon. The press must be getting some details leaked from inside the Tory party and it's a constant drip, drip, drip. Which is quite canny really because, as you say, one party, two parties, who cares but when it is one after the other ad infitum then the sheer constant ness has an effect.
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My take on the current bollocks (which is probably bollocks anyway). Loads of leaks to the media and frankly loopy allegations of Islamophobia seems to show an internal war going on.
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Traditional Tories can't stand Boris as he's put up taxes which they say isn't needed. After all, the government only borrowed near £300 for every man, woman & child in the UK last month...
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New Northern MPs seem to have a sense of entitlement and don't think Boris has given them enough money
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Libertarian Tories hate him for lockdown, infringing liberty and not letting the virus rip.
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Remainer Tories hate Boris as he delivered Brexit.
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Ultra-Brexit Tories think he's gone soft on the EU
With an 80 seat majority and Starmer as LOTO, the factions are all jostling for power thinking they'll win easily in 2023/4. They probably won't.
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
If Boris departs, grab the popcorn as the Tory in-fighting could well be something to watch.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
My take on the current bollocks (which is probably bollocks anyway). Loads of leaks to the media and frankly loopy allegations of Islamophobia seems to show an internal war going on.
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Traditional Tories can't stand Boris as he's put up taxes which they say isn't needed. After all, the government only borrowed near £300 for every man, woman & child in the UK last month...
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New Northern MPs seem to have a sense of entitlement and don't think Boris has given them enough money
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Libertarian Tories hate him for lockdown, infringing liberty and not letting the virus rip.
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Remainer Tories hate Boris as he delivered Brexit.
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Ultra-Brexit Tories think he's gone soft on the EU
With an 80 seat majority and Starmer as LOTO, the factions are all jostling for power thinking they'll win easily in 2023/4. They probably won't.
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
If Boris departs, grab the popcorn as the Tory in-fighting could well be something to watch.
Until and unless those factions can agree on a new leader, they're stuck with Boris.
I'm increasingly getting the feeling that most of this recent ruckus originated with the Downing Street corps/Civil Service liaison, and Boris's 'sin' is more a case of not knocking things on the head.
Threats to BBC licence fee haven't helped.
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British Politics