Super Rugby 2022
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@kiwi_expat Isn't that a rather naive interpretation by you? Do you not agree that the premise of Super rugby is at odds with the preparation for International rugby? The need to score more tries and secure bonus points may tailor player's instinctive reactions. And why on earth would our super coaches train predominantly for a battle of attrition as per topflight test rugby, when they have an elongated season to gather enough points for a favourable draw in play-offs.
I think Foster is spot on. And that is not a bad reflection on the Super coaches at all. (I may have missed Foster criticising the ability of the coaches you named - in which case I would agree with your criticism of that) They just train what is demanded for their players and for their Super rugby outcomes. It is Foster's job to modify the player's learned play from Super rugby to suit a game plan for international play. Maybe that is why we instinctively throw 50 50 passes and try to play wide early, because it works far more in Super rugby, with defences not as robust there.
It would also seem obvious that exposure to different playing styles will better prepare players for international rugby. Playing against South African, Australian, Kiwi, Argentinian and Japanese teams had Super coaches adapting their game plans and strategies, and players learning how to cope with the changing strategies of many evolving opponents.
Perhaps the Irish benefit from being in European competition..... I certainly think that Aotearoa Super rugby has not helped the AB's, while the move of South African into Europe has benefited Ireland, France etc. Lord forbid, it may have even left one of two players a trifle weary by late November.
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@arhs said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat Isn't that a rather naive interpretation by you? Do you not agree that the premise of Super rugby is at odds with the preparation for International rugby? The need to score more tries and secure bonus points may tailor player's instinctive reactions. And why on earth would our super coaches train predominantly for a battle of attrition as per topflight test rugby, when they have an elongated season to gather enough points for a favourable draw in play-offs.
I think Foster is spot on. And that is not a bad reflection on the Super coaches at all. (I may have missed Foster criticising the ability of the coaches you named - in which case I would agree with your criticism of that) They just train what is demanded for their players and for their Super rugby outcomes. It is Foster's job to modify the player's learned play from Super rugby to suit a game plan for international play. Maybe that is why we instinctively throw 50 50 passes and try to play wide early, because it works far more in Super rugby, with defences not as robust there.
It would also seem obvious that exposure to different playing styles will better prepare players for international rugby. Playing against South African, Australian, Kiwi, Argentinian and Japanese teams had Super coaches adapting their game plans and strategies, and players learning how to cope with the changing strategies of many evolving opponents.
Perhaps the Irish benefit from being in European competition..... I certainly think that Aotearoa Super rugby has not helped the AB's, while the move of South African into Europe has benefited Ireland, France etc. Lord forbid, it may have even left one of two players a trifle weary by late November.
Our worst franchise (Hurricanes beat the top of table Sharks 38-20 in 2020), Razor has a unbeaten record against SA teams across 4 years and under Robertson the Crusaders faced Jaguares (essentially a full Argentina squad) twice, winning 40-14 (away), 19-3 (home). The Hurricanes also beat the Jaguares in 2020 in Argentinia prior to lockdown...
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List of Crusaders loses under Razor during the international SR format (2017-2020):
Hurricanes (2x), Chiefs (2x), Highlanders (1x), Waratahs (x1).
Number of SA franchises that qualified for playoffs:
2017 (3), 2018 (2), 2019 (2).
Number of NZ franchises that qualified for playoffs:
2017 (4), 2018 (4), 2019 (4).
The SA franchises were not dominant at any point since Super Rugby's inception, even the Australian sides were statistically more consistent overall. There seems to be an extreme misconception regarding the value those SA franchises brought to the competition. Even with the regular assistance of corrupt officials at home and a farcical conference system providing them guaranteed top playoff spots.. they still never performed to a great level.
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No one cares sycophant
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
call the whole thing off, what's the point?
You know this is a rugby forum aye?
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
No one cares sycophant
The apologists seemingly care enough to go out of their way to endorse Foster's shameful excuse making.
Just look at ARHS comment. Do people genuinely think our Super Rugby teams are the real problem here?
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Oh yeah I'm totally in the Foster camp
But yes, I firmly believe Super rugby in its conform, and only playing ourselves is hampering us.
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@mariner4life in the shamateur days playing with ourselves didn't hinder things much...
I think it must be hard for the players though, must get very stale playing the same teams over and over.
Just to clarify, too much travel bad, small team pool bad...
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
Oh yeah I'm totally in the Foster camp
But yes, I firmly believe Super rugby in its conform, and only playing ourselves is hampering us.
Then what is the format we need to help growth in the International game ?
I don't see one with the current climate we live in with Covid etc.So in your opinion how do we create the level below International rugby for the AB's to be more competitive.
Australia has the same problem as the stronger competitions aligned to producing test match type Rugby is on the other side of the globe.
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@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
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@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Both I think
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@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Both I think
I can sympathise. SR Pacific is going to tough enough to schedule next year
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Both I think
I can sympathise. SR Pacific is going to tough enough to schedule next year
Me too, but I think the way the NZR were talking when they restructured it was on the cards that SA was not in their Thinking.
Covid is the biggest bitch ever to come along and ruin sport, and more importantly peoples lives in all sorts of ways.
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@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Both I think
I can sympathise. SR Pacific is going to tough enough to schedule next year
Me too, but I think the way the NZR were talking when they restructured it was on the cards that SA was not in their Thinking.
Covid is the biggest bitch ever to come along and ruin sport, and more importantly peoples lives in all sorts of ways.
Yeah. I hope SANZAR can recover it when this is over. To be honest though, I haven't been a fan since they changed to the conference system
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Both I think
I can sympathise. SR Pacific is going to tough enough to schedule next year
Me too, but I think the way the NZR were talking when they restructured it was on the cards that SA was not in their Thinking.
Covid is the biggest bitch ever to come along and ruin sport, and more importantly peoples lives in all sorts of ways.
Yeah. I hope SANZAR can recover it when this is over. To be honest though, I haven't been a fan since they changed to the conference system
The Conference system was the start of the demise of SR.
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Ultimately I think it's a situation that will end up being good for us given the amount of travel to create a premium product in what is becoming a failing State.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@chris super rugby used to be good preparation for test rugby. You saw it with the success of sanzar countries at test level.
We've diluted it, lost good players up north and the quality has dropped. The decision to go to 18 teams was a shocker. I think you see a correlation with international success and the super quality
Agreed,The decision to dump SA teams was a mistake IMO they brought a point of difference to the competition.
Was it a choice or a decision forced by covid19?
Ultimately I think it's a situation that will end up being good for us given the amount of travel to create a premium product in what is becoming a failing State.
Travel and time differences definitely a problem. And the fact that the saffas didn't really seem to take super rugby that seriously. As attractive as expansion into Japan and elsewhere sounds, it can't be at the expense of rhe on field product
