England vs Springbokke
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@stodders said in England vs Springbokke:
@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@junior also the problem wasn't the lack of points, it was the soft points conceded. Poor defence lost that game
The vaunted SA defence does that at times. If you look at most of SA's losses in last 4 years, they normally win the possession and territory yet their defensive system can be stressed to breaking point.
It's not pressure, it is catestrophic failure that is killing them. The first two tries came from defenders not taking what England was giving them.
Nyakane and Mbonambi were poor. Reinach was poor in contact. You know you are in trouble when you start worrying everytime your two play makers have the ball (Pollard and Le Roux). I still don't get why Wiese (just why).
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Congrats to England for another win at Twickenhamšš» by one lonely point šCouple nice tries for a very decent first half but our line outs just didn fire consistently and we didnāt look settled right from that first scrum. Should have converted 2nd 40 dominance into points and DDA and Etzebeth really got through a ton of graft. Penalty count heavily in our favour but donāt think Eng can really complain ? I thought the ref was pretty clear and balanced with sealing off in first 40 as well and it set a tone. Pity that Siya pass to Kriel didnāt go to hand or Eben didnāt hang on for a bit but think the guys just lost it a bit for last 10 and paid the price. Iām def staying up for NZ v Franceā¦going to be a cracker šš»
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Was at Twickenham to see the game which was great but of course you donāt get the same overview that you do on TV, so I wonāt comment on the technical penalties as I could discern fuck all. Fat head Ewels was lucky under current practice not to see yellow but IMO penalty was about right. Kolisi yellow was in li e with current practice but IMO not worthy of a yellow. Thems the breaks I guess.
But fuck me there seems to be some bitterness on here. SA could easily have won. Should have? Not not so much. England could easily have lost it. Should have? Not so much. For all SAās dominance on the second half, Iād guess the stats would show a different picture. *Edit: should have stressed āin the first halfā. In the first half SA were kept in the game by a series of technical penalties and errors rather than any great play of their own.
In the end it was a bloody good test match between two good sides, which could have gone either way. You know, what sport is supposed to be about.
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@catogrande the reason why I wasn't too worried at half time was that England had four scoring chances and took three, we had six and scored off four of them. Didn't count the second half but it must be something like ten three. Problem was that we didn't hear enough from those and conceded too many off the couple chances we conceded.
Again, well done to England. They did their game much better than we did ours.
Individually we won most of the battles but England won the the big strategic moments
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@catogrande also, have a good one, much to celebrate off the back of that game
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Itās not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SAās forward pack that they didnāt go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointerā¦
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@catogrande said in England vs Springbokke:
Itās not just the number of scoring chances or the percentage taken. There is also the multiple. 2x7 > 3x3. I was surprised, given SAās forward pack that they didnāt go to the corner a bit in the first half. If one of those thee pointers had been even a five pointerā¦
Pollard left 6 points out there from missed penalties. I thought his 2 misses early in the 2nd half when Boks were on top gave England a lift.
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@catogrande I thought they got the corner vs post calls largely right. They got the one from 55 so it kinda balances out against the two 45m kicks missed.
Thinking about it the drop kick Steyn missed was a huge moment (duh). Frans Steyn forty meters out, you expect better.
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@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@stodders Nah, kept the momentum despite the misses. We lost momentum with the soft try and the "unnecessary" yellow
Didn't say you lost momentum. Just that it gave England a lift that kept them going. Boks had strangled them so hard I thought they were going to pass out!
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@sidbarret said in England vs Springbokke:
@catogrande also, have a good one, much to celebrate off the back of that game
Thanks mate. Already on my way. Tomorrow will be a long day
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Game of the weekend for me.
England were great for the first 40 minutes, and one scrum aside, brushed off the completely absurd claim from above that SA have the two best front rows in world rugby. That starting front row is average at best. Kolisi has massively picked up his ball in hand game, an absolute weapon. Man he loves a whinge to the ref though, I did wonder if the ref had been influenced by Erasmus claims though as he should have been dealt with much much firmer if you ask me. Still, doesn't stop him being a giant of a man.
Didn't understand SA not kicking to the corner to go for tries. That second half fresh front row is an awesome tactic which I expect to be copied by the rest of the playing nations. At least until world rugby gets it shit together injury wise and demands 80 minutes from every player. The forward dominance turned into possession, territory, penalties, but oddly enough ... insufficient points. You can call the England tries as soft as you want, but they were well worked moves / tactics straight from the EJ brain after his methodical research of the SA game.
Not sure where Farrel fits in the England team anymore.
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Re the scrums - even you had to laugh at the first three scrums with the English pack going as softly as they could trying to get the Boks off balance. It worked but it wasn't going to be sustainable strategy. On completed scrums they had the English pack on skates the entire game.
Re Kolisi - that's the type of player he's always been. The thing is that he has had some serious injuries since early 2019, (didn't play for 6 prior to the world cup that year, and had another big one in 2020) which is also when he came to prominence as an international player.
Re the English points - I wouldn't call them soft, rather it was clever play, but as a Bok supporter I'm disappointed that we fell into it so easily. The English were playing very deep to try and get around the rush, the reason teams don't normally play that deep is because against a drift pattern you are likely to get caught behind the ad line and be turned over. The Boks are a settled and experienced unit and should have adapted/had a plan b aganst this type of attack.
Re posts v corner - I don't mind going for points and in a game where we were able to get back on attack soon after I think it is best to punish the opposition's mistakes. The ones I think we got wrong was the 50m shot Pollard got and the two long ones that he missed. Where you need to do something spacial to cash in, I think it is better to try and cash in with tries, on the 22 bang in front? Take the points.
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From a neutral point of view, I am surprised that the referee gave only one yellow card to the English team. Ewels was lucky to be not red carded. I know his fault was not intentional, but we have seen red cards for identical offenses. Moreover, the referee should have awarded a penalty try when the SA maul was collapsed after a huge progression. However, congrats to England. They scored three good tries though they were well beaten up front.
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@majorrage said in England vs Springbokke:
ā¦.. and one scrum aside, brushed off the completely absurd claim from above that SA have the two best front rows in world rugby. That starting front row is average at best.
Unfortunately I canāt upvote @SidBarret response to this more than once. England gamed it right on the edge. Kudos to them. Once that trick was exposed for what it was, normal duty resumed
Rest of your post is spot on on point.
That bit of commentary aside, genuine congratulations to England and English fans. I felt a marginal call here or there could have given the Boks victory but it was the right result in the end. Some great tries against a team that prides themselves on their defense. Definitely going to be a force to watch if they keep building on this.
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I hope @Catogrande is recovering well. But Iām also hoping the boks are heading home thinking about how critical developing a more incisive attack is.
