Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, there seems to be a misconception on here that Robertson would simply be a Robbie Deans 2.0, when in reality they are very different coaches..
NO. I made the comparison and it was all about the public baying for them to be appointed, not about their coaching records or styles.
The point was that it becomes a mantra and loses some objectivity. I haven't ever said that Razor isn't a good coach just that maybe there are things we should question before declaring him as the saviour.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp didn't drop a game.
in all seriousness, he's a very very good coach.
However, coaching Super and coaching Internationals aren't the same. I could understand why 2 years ago they went somewhere else - he hadn't built the resume he has now.
Also, coaching at the crusaders is like Mo'unga in Super; an armchair ride withthe forward pack. A competent administration around you makes life much easier. The challenge for Razor from Sir Graham was to get out of his comfort zone and go and coach successfully somewhere else. Both Henry and Hansen did this, and I really think it benefitted them.
I don't think yuo'll find many who would prefer Foster to Robertson, but there are a bunch of people we should have been looking for but NZR borked the process completely. Foster is a shambles, and I'm on record wanting him to go early. The reappointment this year was a disgrace.
But also, red and black brigading here is pretty funny; some folk dance on the head of a pin to justify their player selections. Haven't seen the provincialism for years with the AB success, so it's kind of refreshing to have it back.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp didn't drop a game.
in all seriousness, he's a very very good coach.
However, coaching Super and coaching Internationals aren't the same. I could understand why 2 years ago they went somewhere else - he hadn't built the resume he has now.
Also, coaching at the crusaders is like Mo'unga in Super; an armchair ride withthe forward pack. A competent administration around you makes life much easier. The challenge for Razor from Sir Graham was to get out of his comfort zone and go and coach successfully somewhere else. Both Henry and Hansen did this, and I really think it benefitted them.
I don't think yuo'll find many who would prefer Foster to Robertson, but there are a bunch of people we should have been looking for but NZR borked the process completely. Foster is a shambles, and I'm on record wanting him to go early. The reappointment this year was a disgrace.
But also, red and black brigading here is pretty funny; some folk dance on the head of a pin to justify their player selections. Haven't seen the provincialism for years with the AB success, so it's kind of refreshing to have it back.
and seem to be forgotten the team he had coming with him was weak
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This post is deleted!
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp didn't drop a game.
in all seriousness, he's a very very good coach.
However, coaching Super and coaching Internationals aren't the same. I could understand why 2 years ago they went somewhere else - he hadn't built the resume he has now.
Also, coaching at the crusaders is like Mo'unga in Super; an armchair ride withthe forward pack. A competent administration around you makes life much easier. The challenge for Razor from Sir Graham was to get out of his comfort zone and go and coach successfully somewhere else. Both Henry and Hansen did this, and I really think it benefitted them.
I don't think yuo'll find many who would prefer Foster to Robertson, but there are a bunch of people we should have been looking for but NZR borked the process completely. Foster is a shambles, and I'm on record wanting him to go early. The reappointment this year was a disgrace.
But also, red and black brigading here is pretty funny; some folk dance on the head of a pin to justify their player selections. Haven't seen the provincialism for years with the AB success, so it's kind of refreshing to have it back.
I have to say....i dont agree with the idea that super level is easy compared to international, i could just as easily argue that the AB coach gets to cherry pick the best players from (at least arguably) the best club competition in the world and often only has to put a squad together for 4-6 games in a row
theyre different, but i dont think its straight line in difficulty
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@nzzp Here's a really insightful article by Ronan O'Gara about Razor and Foster's appointment in 2019:
Ronan O'Gara: Razor didn’t fall short at all in All Blacks bid
Being a strong advocate of Scott Robertson to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach does not mean Ian Foster is not the right fit in my eyes.
"Irrespective how I word this, it will be interpreted incorrectly by some.
Being a strong advocate of Scott Robertson to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach does not mean Ian Foster is not the right fit in my eyes.
But — there’s always a but — I can’t help feeling that the New Zealand Rugby hierarchy has missed a trick here.
Timing is everything, they say, and the timing for ‘Razor’ to assume the most prestigious post of his career was absolutely perfect.
He is a brilliant coach, a brilliant people person, and when Sam Whitelock returns from his gap year in Japan, he would have had a brilliant chemistry with his captain moving towards the next World Cup.
When I heard Razor hadn’t got the job, I started wondering where did he fall short? Of course, he didn’t fall short at all.
The NZRU clearly were looking for something different. Continuity? Experience? But what have they given up?
Razor’s vision for the All Blacks is something the players and the country will miss going forward.
I’d love to have seen his presentation, because rest assured, it would have been innovative and progressive and something the interview board would not have seen before. Perhaps too much so.
Maybe ‘falling short’ amounted to being too ‘out there’ for decision-makers in the NZRU, and I am only surmising here.
Rugby and society are changing so fast nowadays, it’s hard to keep up if you are in your twenties, never mind forty-something coaches like Razor and I. But he gets it.
He connects brilliantly with players 20 years younger than him. I believe that should be a pre-requisite for getting a job like this.
He just makes the game so enjoyable. Being in an All Black camp with Razor would have been a fun place to be.
Of course, there’s no reason to assume it won’t be like that under Ian Foster.
Those underwhelmed by his appointment point to the ‘sameness’ of the new set-up, but that does not take into consideration the player turnover in that time.
Foster is 54, he was clearly not ‘the people’s choice’, but that perception is very easily changed when you are racking up the W’s.
I worked closely with Scott Robertson for two years, so I am biased. It is argued that one of his main shortcomings is a lack of international test experience.
That’s an impossible argument to win either way but consider two things here — No 1, that is a stick used to beat a player, not a coach who has dominated the game in the southern hemisphere for three years.
And secondly, two thirds of the NZ team are his own Crusaders, many of them he has developed into All Black leaders.
Razor’s ability to get the best out of the remainder of the group when they pull on the black jersey is beyond dispute when you’ve seen him work at close quarters.
Where does he excel? His abilities in the area of people interaction and connection are off the charts. He stokes players’ passion, their identity, and their focus.
I saw all those things first hand in Christchurch and I think he would even ramp it up had he been the new All Blacks coach.
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk."
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
**I worked closely with Scott Robertson for two years, so I am biased. It is argued that one of his main shortcomings is a lack of international test experience.
i do always laugh at that argument....by that logic we would have no new caps....because they dont have international experience, surely you look at those that stand out from one level as ready to step up to the next
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk.**That would have, innovation we can't have that in the All Blacks.Same old stick in the mud stuff is what we need.
That sort of thinking may scare some Ferner's who like mediocrity. -
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Nope wasn’t accusing you of being a Crusaders fan - I’m not cruel.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years. -
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
"Irrespective how I word this, it will be interpreted incorrectly by some.
Being a strong advocate of Scott Robertson to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach does not mean Ian Foster is not the right fit in my eyes.
But — there’s always a but — I can’t help feeling that the New Zealand Rugby hierarchy has missed a trick here.
Timing is everything, they say, and the timing for ‘Razor’ to assume the most prestigious post of his career was absolutely perfect.
He is a brilliant coach, a brilliant people person, and when Sam Whitelock returns from his gap year in Japan, he would have had a brilliant chemistry with his captain moving towards the next World Cup.
When I heard Razor hadn’t got the job, I started wondering where did he fall short? Of course, he didn’t fall short at all.
The NZRU clearly were looking for something different. Continuity? Experience? But what have they given up?
Razor’s vision for the All Blacks is something the players and the country will miss going forward.
I’d love to have seen his presentation, because rest assured, it would have been innovative and progressive and something the interview board would not have seen before. Perhaps too much so.
Maybe ‘falling short’ amounted to being too ‘out there’ for decision-makers in the NZRU, and I am only surmising here.
Rugby and society are changing so fast nowadays, it’s hard to keep up if you are in your twenties, never mind forty-something coaches like Razor and I. But he gets it.
He connects brilliantly with players 20 years younger than him. I believe that should be a pre-requisite for getting a job like this.
He just makes the game so enjoyable. Being in an All Black camp with Razor would have been a fun place to be.
Of course, there’s no reason to assume it won’t be like that under Ian Foster.
Those underwhelmed by his appointment point to the ‘sameness’ of the new set-up, but that does not take into consideration the player turnover in that time.
Foster is 54, he was clearly not ‘the people’s choice’, but that perception is very easily changed when you are racking up the W’s.
I worked closely with Scott Robertson for two years, so I am biased. It is argued that one of his main shortcomings is a lack of international test experience.
That’s an impossible argument to win either way but consider two things here — No 1, that is a stick used to beat a player, not a coach who has dominated the game in the southern hemisphere for three years.
And secondly, two thirds of the NZ team are his own Crusaders, many of them he has developed into All Black leaders.
Razor’s ability to get the best out of the remainder of the group when they pull on the black jersey is beyond dispute when you’ve seen him work at close quarters.
Where does he excel? His abilities in the area of people interaction and connection are off the charts. He stokes players’ passion, their identity, and their focus.
I saw all those things first hand in Christchurch and I think he would even ramp it up had he been the new All Blacks coach.
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk."
or maybe they considered that he did not have enough experience to coach the all blacks. keep growing and it will come.
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
"Irrespective how I word this, it will be interpreted incorrectly by some.
Being a strong advocate of Scott Robertson to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach does not mean Ian Foster is not the right fit in my eyes.
But — there’s always a but — I can’t help feeling that the New Zealand Rugby hierarchy has missed a trick here.
Timing is everything, they say, and the timing for ‘Razor’ to assume the most prestigious post of his career was absolutely perfect.
He is a brilliant coach, a brilliant people person, and when Sam Whitelock returns from his gap year in Japan, he would have had a brilliant chemistry with his captain moving towards the next World Cup.
When I heard Razor hadn’t got the job, I started wondering where did he fall short? Of course, he didn’t fall short at all.
The NZRU clearly were looking for something different. Continuity? Experience? But what have they given up?
Razor’s vision for the All Blacks is something the players and the country will miss going forward.
I’d love to have seen his presentation, because rest assured, it would have been innovative and progressive and something the interview board would not have seen before. Perhaps too much so.
Maybe ‘falling short’ amounted to being too ‘out there’ for decision-makers in the NZRU, and I am only surmising here.
Rugby and society are changing so fast nowadays, it’s hard to keep up if you are in your twenties, never mind forty-something coaches like Razor and I. But he gets it.
He connects brilliantly with players 20 years younger than him. I believe that should be a pre-requisite for getting a job like this.
He just makes the game so enjoyable. Being in an All Black camp with Razor would have been a fun place to be.
Of course, there’s no reason to assume it won’t be like that under Ian Foster.
Those underwhelmed by his appointment point to the ‘sameness’ of the new set-up, but that does not take into consideration the player turnover in that time.
Foster is 54, he was clearly not ‘the people’s choice’, but that perception is very easily changed when you are racking up the W’s.
I worked closely with Scott Robertson for two years, so I am biased. It is argued that one of his main shortcomings is a lack of international test experience.
That’s an impossible argument to win either way but consider two things here — No 1, that is a stick used to beat a player, not a coach who has dominated the game in the southern hemisphere for three years.
And secondly, two thirds of the NZ team are his own Crusaders, many of them he has developed into All Black leaders.
Razor’s ability to get the best out of the remainder of the group when they pull on the black jersey is beyond dispute when you’ve seen him work at close quarters.
Where does he excel? His abilities in the area of people interaction and connection are off the charts. He stokes players’ passion, their identity, and their focus.
I saw all those things first hand in Christchurch and I think he would even ramp it up had he been the new All Blacks coach.
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk."
or maybe they considered that he did not have enough experience to coach the all blacks. keep growing and it will come.
Experience is great isn't it Foster has had 7 years of it as AB assistant coach then fucks up the next 2.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.nope, too late, you've made your argument, it would be unfern like to change your mind due to new evidence
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.nope, too late, you've made your argument, it would be unfern like to change your mind due to new evidence
Fuck it sorry, Crusaders brother's out there.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.That sounds like the Canterbury way.
Will you be supporting the Wallabies when Razor takes over coaching them too? Some of us haven't forgotten that.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.That sounds like the Canterbury way.
Will you be supporting the Wallabies when Razor takes over coaching them too? Some of us haven't forgotten that.
Ahhh no, He then becomes a traitor so fuck him.If he left the Crusaders only would forgive him if he left the Crusaders to coach the AB's, my post above was tongue in cheek you realise.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.That sounds like the Canterbury way.
Will you be supporting the Wallabies when Razor takes over coaching them too? Some of us haven't forgotten that.
You mean like Rennie now coaching them ?
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
Why are the Cantabs circling the wagons for Razor?
I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d rather have Fozzie than Razor.
i hope you were insinuating i was a saders fan....i want the AB's to poach him so the saders dont have him any more!
Yeah on second thoughts Fuck it Ab's can keep Foster, we will keep Razor and keep winning.
Then I can keep bagging the fuck out of Foster for his next 9 years.That sounds like the Canterbury way.
Will you be supporting the Wallabies when Razor takes over coaching them too? Some of us haven't forgotten that.
You mean like Rennie now coaching them ?
Go find my post when he was appointed.
