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All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour

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All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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  • S Offline
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    stodders
    replied to JC on last edited by
    #78

    @jc Cane is well behind Papali'i and Savea and even Blackadder for the 7 jersey. He shouldn't be playing for ABs until next season now. It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out.

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  • BovidaeB Offline
    BovidaeB Offline
    Bovidae
    wrote on last edited by
    #79

    Foster and co won't be putting Cane out there to fail so I would think he'd need to show them during training this week if he is to be selected. Remember back to 2019 when BBBR looked undercooked at the RWC after his injury layoff. The coaches can afford to be more cautious here.

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  • Billy TellB Offline
    Billy TellB Offline
    Billy Tell
    wrote on last edited by
    #80

    Imo it will be a terrible selection if cane starts at 7. And a total lack of faith in those who have ably replaced him. Come back next season Sam. Your country will no doubt need you.

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    stodders
    replied to Billy Tell on last edited by
    #81

    @billy-tell said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    Imo it will be a terrible selection if cane starts at 7. And a total lack of faith in those who have ably replaced him. Come back next season Sam. Your country will no doubt need you.

    Not like they need him to be captain. Whitelock has that in hand, with Savea, Retallick ably supporting him. Cane shouldn't be anywhere near selection IMO. The Irish back row, and pack in general, are not to be underestimated or be used as a stepping stone on a long term injury comeback.

    Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy TellB Offline
    Billy TellB Offline
    Billy Tell
    wrote on last edited by Billy Tell
    #82

    Ireland 2019/2021

    1 Cian Healy => Andrew Porter. Has switched back to LH, where he terrorised NZ at U20 level, notably Tuungafasi if my memory serves me correctly.
    2 Rory Best (Captain) => Ronan Kelleher. Hooker is not Ireland's strongest area. Decent enough but prone to throwing yips.
    3 Tadhg Furlong => Tadgh Furlong. Best TH in world rugby, would stroll into the ABs team. Does all the core duties well and pretty decent in open play too.
    4 Iain Henderson => Tadgh Beirne. Beirne is a lock/6. He is savage at the tackle/ruck for turnovers/penaltiey, and pretty athletic. Not sure how would go in a tight foward tussle though. Might make way altogether or move to 6 for Henderson
    5 James Ryan => James Ryan. In his first season, Irish fans were comparing him to Retallick and Itoje. Has been quieter since then, and possibly at risk from Henderson. Still a pretty decent lock.
    6 Peter O'Mahony => Caelan Doris. Doris I haven't seen so much of, but he's pretty athletic and a bigger player than O'Mahony.
    7 Josh van der Flier => Josh Van der Flier. Reminds me of Marty Holah a bit. Very good player, but probably a tad underpowered for the very top level.
    8 CJ Stander => Jack Conan. A rangy dynamic 8, offers a lot more in the loose than Stander. Qs still remain against dominant oppositon packs IMO. Stander was a unit, but pretty one-dimensional.
    9 Conor Murray => Jamison Gibson-Park. Cf his NZ ruby career
    10 Johnny Sexton => Johnny Sexton. Underated on this forum but a pretty decent 1st-five. Bit of a prat/prima donna though and now aged 36.
    11 Jacob Stockdale => James Lowe. Cf his NZ rugby career
    12 Robbie Henshaw => Bundee Aki. Cf his NZ rugby career
    13 Garry Ringrose => Gary Ringrose. Pretty decent centre, a standout at U20 level. Conrad Smith style of player.
    14 Keith Earls => Andrew Conway. A nose for the tryline, decent in the air. A solid option but the ABs won't be losing sleep.
    15 Rob Kearney => Hugo Keenan. I really rate Keenan. He is Ireland's answer to Ben Smith, but a bit less threatening on attack. But in the air, positioning, tactical awareness etc first rate. Unlucky not to make the Lions wider squad IMO.

    The current team is more dynamic than the 2019 RWC quarter-final team, I wonder about their nous under pressure though. NZ should relentlessly target the ageing Sexton and the defensively-suspect Lowe.

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  • S Offline
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    stodders
    replied to Billy Tell on last edited by
    #83

    @billy-tell Agree with that analysis. Assuming above is their starting XV their bench will most likely be Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, O'Mahoney, Murray, Carbery and Earls.

    Pretty strong. Carbery is a good player, though on the small side. Not seen much of Bealham, but he's doing well for Connacht.

    Billy TellB 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy TellB Offline
    Billy TellB Offline
    Billy Tell
    replied to stodders on last edited by
    #84

    @stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @billy-tell Agree with that analysis. Assuming above is their starting XV their bench will most likely be Sheehan, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, O'Mahoney, Murray, Carbery and Earls.

    Pretty strong. Carbery is a good player, though on the small side. Not seen much of Bealham, but he's doing well for Connacht.

    Bench is weak

    Healy, O’Mahoney, Murray and Earls are past it. Carbery out of form with having had a multitude of injuries. Bealham a bit meh. Henderson can be very good and Sheehan I haven’t seen play i think.

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  • Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to stodders on last edited by Victor Meldrew
    #85

    @stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.

    Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him... πŸ™‚ 🎣

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  • S Offline
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    stodders
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #86

    @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.

    Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him... πŸ™‚ 🎣

    A. He isn't injured or coming back from a long layoff

    B. He doesn't have anyone who has played at his level so far since he returned to NZ.

    C. Your bait is rancid. 😜

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to stodders on last edited by
    #87

    @stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    Will Aaron Smith make it straight back into the match day 23 is the bigger question. ABs would love to be able to bring him on in the closing stretch.

    Like Cane, Should he even be playing for ABs next season now? It wouldn't really be fair on him given the length of time he has been out - not to mention the people who've so ably filled in for him... πŸ™‚ 🎣

    A. He isn't injured or coming back from a long layoff

    B. He doesn't have anyone who has played at his level so far since he returned to NZ.

    C. Your bait is rancid. 😜

    In all seriousness, I'd take a fit Sam Cane over any other 7 any day of the week. If he's selected in the 23 and comes thru 20 minutes or so against Ireland, I'd pick him to start against France.

    I'd say the same for Nugget and wouldn't want him starting against a top tier nation when he been away for so long either.

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  • CrucialC Offline
    CrucialC Offline
    Crucial
    wrote on last edited by
    #88

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough (unless there's another injury we don't know about).
    Would definitely keep him in play for the France game though.

    antipodeanA 1 Reply Last reply
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  • antipodeanA Offline
    antipodeanA Offline
    antipodean
    replied to Crucial on last edited by
    #89

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
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  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to antipodean on last edited by
    #90

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.

    TJP can carry water

    No QuarterN Victor MeldrewV 2 Replies Last reply
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  • KiwiwombleK Offline
    KiwiwombleK Offline
    Kiwiwomble
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #91

    @chris-b said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @antipodean Cane's had 100 minutes of (Tier 2) test rugby. That's been sufficient for plenty of people in the past.

    It's not a requirement that he play, because we have other good options.

    But, it won't surprise me if he plays - and it's probably more balanced for him to start than to be on the bench.

    for me it comes down to how well he played in that tier 2 hit out and how much need we have, he was ok but far from stellar and we have other very solid options so will be surprised

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  • No QuarterN Offline
    No QuarterN Offline
    No Quarter
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #92

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.

    TJP can carry water

    Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
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  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to No Quarter on last edited by
    #93

    @no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.

    TJP can carry water

    Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.

    Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely

    KiwiwombleK BovidaeB 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #94

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench

    Though he hasn't played much against top tier teams, he's been a bit of a revelation at 9 for me.

    Didn't really rate him that much in Super Rugby - just a good solid halfback - but he seems to be an equally good, solid 9 at Test level and looks comfortable in the Black jersey.

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
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  • KiwiwombleK Offline
    KiwiwombleK Offline
    Kiwiwomble
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #95

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.

    TJP can carry water

    Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.

    Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely

    i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask

    CrucialC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CrucialC Offline
    CrucialC Offline
    Crucial
    replied to Kiwiwomble on last edited by
    #96

    @kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    @crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    No need for Nugget to play this week. Big ask to hop off a long haul into a big test. Sure, if it was a WC situation then you'd do it but TJ and Christie are playing well enough

    I must be watching different games.

    I think Christie has proved himself and I would have him starting again and Smith on the bench to get 20-30 mins towards the end of the game.

    TJP can carry water

    Agree with this, against an organised defense that rushes up the last thing our 10 needs is loopy passes. I'd also definitely have A Smith on the bench to up the anti towards the end of the game, I'm sure he can handle 15 - 20 minutes of rugby and his pass alone will make a huge difference.

    Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely

    i think general fitness will be fine, smith will have been doing everything he can to stay sharp, obviously match fitness is a step up but i would hope as he hasn't been away for injury it wouldn't be a huge ask

    He's a hard trainer for sure but I think that some here are underestimating what the week will take out of him. He could be absolutely fine to get straight into it but jetlag will catchup sooner or later and he could be really flat for the France game.

    Let the guys that are there do the job (Christie starting IMO), let Smith find his feet and take it from there.

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  • BovidaeB Offline
    BovidaeB Offline
    Bovidae
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #97

    @hooroo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:

    Only issue is if Christie does a Weber and pulls up short with a hammie in the first few minutes. Smith wouldn't manage 75 mins I doubt. Dmac into halfback most likely

    There is no guarantee that DMac will be on the bench. He wasn't against Wales. I think they'll go for the TJP-Christie combo in this test.

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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