Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour
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@bovidae said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial Tupaea was sometimes selected at centre for the Chiefs last year but never looked as comfortable compared to 2nd 5.
I read a stuff piece recently where they said he prefers center, but I'm sure he has also said he's a 2nd five first (and I think originally that Fozzie said he's a specialist 12 too). At HS did he play at 12 or move around a bit? I know he has played 12 and 13 for Waikato and the Chiefs, but as you said, he is much better (defensively especially) at 12. He gets a bit lost at 13.
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is it just me or are a lot of these midfielders becoming a little precious with which position they play (12 or 13), in my mind they are much more similar position than 10 and 15, 15 and 14 or 7,8,6 but we have lots of players that are happy to move between these positions
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@gt12 Tupaea did play centre for HBHS a little bit early on but was definitely at 12 in his last 2 years. IIRC, in his first year in the 1st XV as a yr 11 Reece was his midfield partner.
Centre is the hardest backline position to master defensively, which is why they aren't many who have looked comfortable switching between the two. Tupaea is suited to 2nd 5 as he is a strong, direct runner.
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@kiwiwomble said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
is it just me or are a lot of these midfielders becoming a little precious with which position they play (12 or 13), in my mind they are much more similar position than 10 and 15, 15 and 14 or 7,8,6 but we have lots of players that are happy to move between these positions
In can be a similar position or can be quite different depending on style of play.
You can have a 12 that is a true 2nd5 or a 12 that is a centre.
Then even with 2 centres you can have a dedicated straightener and a distributor or line-runner OR you can have both players being adept at both. Generally though the 12 plays straighter in that scenario and the 13 is better at getting around the corner and distributing to the wing with good timing.
The defence roles and judgement can be quite different as well. There are definitely 12s that don't make good 13s and vice-versa.
10 and 15 are similar in that they both need good kicking from hand and both need to be quick decision makers and readers of what is in front of them at all distances.
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@crucial said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
Reece played at centre at school but I doubt he has played there since. JB might put his hand up.
I hadn't heard what @Duluth posted above. Thought QT was a specialist 12.
I had been wondering if Reece had played centre. JB hasn't (AFAIK), he is a 12 as well. The interesting thought that crossed my mind was Bridge. Can he re-invent himself there? Seems to have a rugby brain just not the impact but could possibly be good at line running and distribution. Agree that the ABs is not the place for this re-invention. Trouble is that he can be effective on the wing at lower levels so is unlikely to be able to do it there. His ceiling is Super Rugby for the wing but if you scratch that surface he has touches of class/skills/brains that got him identified for higher honours.
George would be a pretty small centre and getting late in the day to start converting.
If I were him, I'd be asking to play plenty of fullback for the Crusaders this year. Will
Jordan should play some games on the wing, so there should be opportunities there.He'll be 27 by the time the next AB season rolls around, so as old as Joe Rok and Goldie when they finished. Looks to have lost a yard of pace to me and with other contenders at the door he's going to need a big Super season to hold his place (a big test at the weekend would help as well). This one might be his swansong though.
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@kiwiwomble said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
is it just me or are a lot of these midfielders becoming a little precious with which position they play (12 or 13), in my mind they are much more similar position than 10 and 15, 15 and 14 or 7,8,6 but we have lots of players that are happy to move between these positions
spoken like a true front row forward
I am pretty much of the opposite opinion. There appears to be far too little specialisation in NZ rugby currently. We've got 10s that play 15, 15s playing 12, 15s that people want to play 12, 11s at 13, a plethora of "6.5s" caused by them playing all 3 loosie positions and filling in at lock.
Supe Rugby has to take a lot of the blame, it's open and loose so coaches can just pick the 15 best players and let her rip. Then the national coaches sort of follow on.
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@kiwiwomble I think it is probably easier to go from 12 > 13 than it is to go from 13 > 12, evidenced with how we struggle at 12, certainly dont think they are easily inter-changable.
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@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
is it just me or are a lot of these midfielders becoming a little precious with which position they play (12 or 13), in my mind they are much more similar position than 10 and 15, 15 and 14 or 7,8,6 but we have lots of players that are happy to move between these positions
spoken like a true front row forward
I am pretty much of the opposite opinion. There appears to be far too little specialisation in NZ rugby currently. We've got 10s that play 15, 15s playing 12, 15s that people want to play 12, 11s at 13, a plethora of "6.5s" caused by them playing all 3 loosie positions and filling in at lock.
Supe Rugby has to take a lot of the blame, it's open and loose so coaches can just pick the 15 best players and let her rip. Then the national coaches sort of follow on.
cant argue with that, in general i definitely like seeing a bit more specialisation, it might just be the current situation where we seem to be able to move people around so many different positions but struggle between too that seemed to me to be so similar, you're not wrong though that i was a front rower so have probably missed something
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@taniwharugby said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble I think it is probably easier to go from 12 > 13 than it is to go from 13 > 12, evidenced with how we struggle at 12, certainly dont think they are easily inter-changable.
Assuming you have the body to stand up to the collisions, moving from 13 to 12 is much easier (from my experience at rugby far below this level).
The defense at 13 is just so much harder, more bodies in motion, and at much faster speeds.
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@mariner4life said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
is it just me or are a lot of these midfielders becoming a little precious with which position they play (12 or 13), in my mind they are much more similar position than 10 and 15, 15 and 14 or 7,8,6 but we have lots of players that are happy to move between these positions
spoken like a true front row forward
I am pretty much of the opposite opinion. There appears to be far too little specialisation in NZ rugby currently. We've got 10s that play 15, 15s playing 12, 15s that people want to play 12, 11s at 13, a plethora of "6.5s" caused by them playing all 3 loosie positions and filling in at lock.
Supe Rugby has to take a lot of the blame, it's open and loose so coaches can just pick the 15 best players and let her rip. Then the national coaches sort of follow on.
Don’t forget Scott Barrett goes great at six. I hope they try him there again.
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@bones said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
They're a bit light at 13 given Ennor's fabled robustness though.
Should be fine as long as he doesn't run side-on.
is that a sly dig about the neck discussion? I am so going to find a screenshot now!
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@mn5 said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
Don’t forget Scott Barrett goes great at six. I hope they try him there again.
You are one truck stop from hell...
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@chris-b said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia I bet he's not (heavier).
I bet he is. His listed weight is 96kg but I reckon he's heavier than that (same as ALB), Havilli's listed weight is only 88kg but I reckon he's heavier than that too.
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@nepia 96kgs sounds about right for George.
I bet Dave Havili is at least that and he's pretty small for a second five. If he's going to stay there, I'd think he'll be stuffing himself with creatine in the off-season. He's listed at 95kgs on the Mako$ website.
ALB is 101kgs on his wiki page - and that sounds right as well.
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@chris-b said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia 96kgs sounds about right for George.
I bet Dave Havili is at least that and he's pretty small for a second five. If he's going to stay there, I'd think he'll be stuffing himself with creatine in the off-season. He's listed at 95kgs on the Mako$ website.
ALB is 101kgs on his wiki page - and that sounds right as well.
So, you agree with me that Hori isn't small for the midfield? The dude doesn't even look small on the field, ponderous and ineffectual, yes
, but not small. -
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@chris-b said in Italy vs All Blacks 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia Anything under 100kgs is small for a midfielder in my book.
Ideally I'd like my pairing to be around 100kgs and 108kgs.
Hori is easily 100kg if you're going to allow Havilli to be 95kg (and wiki to be correct for ALB).
