All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@victor-meldrew ABs aren't as bad as some on here make out, nor as good as some would like them to be. They do seem to be in the mix for the title of best team based on current performances.
You guys had a period of prolonged test match success from mid-2000s through to just after 2015 WC win. But even the great side that was created in that period suffered some losses, most notably to SA.
ABs are better than they were last year. Forwards need some refinement and set piece, especially lineout, needs work. I seem to recall similar things being said about ABs post-2003 world cup when Henry took over.
Foster may not be everyone's cup of tea, but judgement should be made after EOYT to see if the AB gameplan evolves, which he and his coaching team has shown some signs of doing this year. The way the current laws are being applied by refs appears to suit the bigger, more powerful teams, so having a strong set piece is vital. ABs did have one of the best lineouts in recent years, so it is interesting to see it regress as far as it has. Whitelock will shore this up when he returns, but it needs more work. Bok lineout is v good, but they don't have a Matfield in there, which is what should bother the AB coaches the most IMO.
ABs have won all but one game this year, and that loss was a 2 point loss against the current world champions on neutral ground. ABs were dire against England in semi in 2019. The game wasn't close. 2 years on, even if opposing teams have some semblance of territorial and possession dominance like Boks have had, the ABs haven't looked like they did for long periods in that England game - lost. They have hung in there, and more often than not, struck when opportunities have been presented. I'd say that is progress at least 2 years out from the next world cup.
A 5-1 record in the rugby championship suggests you're on the right path 😊. You'll flog a number of teams if they don't turn up. It is what happens in the close games that will show if this AB vintage can step up like previous ones have.
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@mikethesnow I'd disagree. In the last 15 mins ABs won 3 penalties by playing in the right areas of the pitch. The problem was that between minutes 40 to 60 they played in the wrong areas. AB lineout woes compounded this. They coughed up possession and allowed pressure to come back on them.
ABs with a functioning lineout ends in a v different territorial game IMO.
Small margins. Boks managed game badly in last mins last week and lost. ABs did likewise this week and lost. All square on aggregate 😬.
Let's see what our teams up north can do on EOYT to gauge where ABs and Boks are in world pecking order. It may be that they are both ahead (with Wallabies catching them up).
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@victor-meldrew brain farts come from pressure. This is only the second game some ABs have played against the Boks. To evolve, players need to have these types of games and losses to develop. To learn what works and what doesn't.
I think Plumtree can fashion a decent pack out of the players at his disposal. Prop stocks are a bit weak, but that is more where they are in their development.
And to give some measure of how dominant ABs have been over Boks for a long period, today was only the first time Retallick has lost to the Boks. To have a rivalry, you need to feel you can lose. Boks vs ABs is the best rivalry in world rugby right now. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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How come its taken 3 years to work out who's the best goal kicking Barrett. Bleedin obvious.
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@berniescorner well I never thought it was Scott, and it was pretty clear to most on here I think for a year or two that it wasn't Beauden.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@mikethesnow I'd disagree. In the last 15 mins ABs won 3 penalties by playing in the right areas of the pitch. The problem was that between minutes 40 to 60 they played in the wrong areas. AB lineout woes compounded this. They coughed up possession and allowed pressure to come back on them.
ABs with a functioning lineout ends in a v different territorial game IMO.
Small margins. Boks managed game badly in last mins last week and lost. ABs did likewise this week and lost. All square on aggregate 😬.
Let's see what our teams up north can do on EOYT to gauge where ABs and Boks are in world pecking order. It may be that they are both ahead (with Wallabies catching them up).
There’s no doubt that if each of the teams playing in the EOYT can field the majority of their best players each match then the top four teams will be NZ, SA, Aus, Eng (not necessarily in that order)
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@berniescorner Jordie couldn't be trusted in other areas. He's matured and been allowed to develop. He now owns the 15 jersey and the kicking duties. He's a success story.
It'll be interesting to see how Mo'unga and Barrett go outside Smith when he returns. Smith is such a brilliant player that he takes pressure off the 10s to make decisions and has greater control over the forwards in front of him. NZ missed him and Whitelock against the Boks.
At least you have them to return to improve the team 😊
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Vermeulen pretty much GOAT material over last decade along w DC and GOAT
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@mikethesnow France? They have the forwards to lay a platform and the 9/10 axis to ignite the backline. I'd say France have more upside than England right now. Eddie's team will be v raw in Nov.
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@berniescorner greater than Read?
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@berniescorner Vermeulen is forged in the same mould as Shelford. An absolute test match animal.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
brain farts come from pressure. This is only the second game some ABs have played against the Boks.
Fair point, but experienced players had brain-farts out there tonight and last week.
I'm not being negative - I think Foster has done well in some areas and the team overall done OK considering their missing key players- just think that progress has stalled in the last two games.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@berniescorner Jordie couldn't be trusted in other areas. He's matured and been allowed to develop. He now owns the 15 jersey and the kicking duties. He's a success story.
It'll be interesting to see how Mo'unga and Barrett go outside Smith when he returns. Smith is such a brilliant player that he takes pressure off the 10s to make decisions and has greater control over the forwards in front of him. NZ missed him and Whitelock against the Boks.
At least you have them to return to improve the team 😊
Smith isn't going on the EOYT sadly
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Vermeulen pretty much GOAT material over last decade along w DC and GOAT
Though Vermeulen's a very good player, he has way too many off games to be considered "great". Far from "greatest" for mine.
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@victor-meldrew the Boks strangle teams and are clinical when given chances in the red zone. Playing them is like playing Chelsea under Mourinho. You have to earn the win.
You will rarely get a blow out because they keep the pressure ratcheted high. The average score between ABs and SA in last few years prior to today's game has been 25-23 to ABs. Boks aren't the 57-0 team of 2017 anymore.
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@victor-meldrew McCaw et al had to learn the hard lessons to become the players they did, even when they were experienced.
