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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo The graphs aren't that interesting - mainly because the author cherry picks and then plays with the scale to make things look more dramatic (eg. deaths/million. Sweden's around 1 Israel 2.8 but the axis makes it look much worse)
The article also has a graph showing how low Sweden's death rate is - and all the countries above are ones where the whole world knows they lost control at some point or another.
Thing is the whole article is based on a untruth - People never stop talking about fuclking Sweden. Anyone who is anti-lockdown writes yet another article about how fucking brilliant Sweden has been, doing exactly what the author says the world is doing. I must see 2-3 articles a week. Generally they do what this guy has done and accentuate the positive and ignore the negatives.
Wow Sweden is doing really well (now that most of western Europe has vaccinated and its been summer) and ignores the previous cock-ups.
It's not fake news - it's just slanted reporting. Opinion masquerading as fact.
Not sure I agree with all of that doggers. The scales look to me like they go as high as necessary. What I found particularly interesting though the difference between Germany and Israel. As for the graph showing "all the countries above are ones where the whole world knows they lost control at some point or another." I think that's kind of the point - that Sweden didn't really lose control (other than the oldies homes early on) despite a different approach
As for people talking about Sweden, I don't see much in the mainstream press here in Oz, cant speak for NZ or Europe. Certainly not from health or Government officials anyway!
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@kid-chocolate As you described it as shit that's exactly what that article is - a screaming pile of shit
Social distancing as a concept originated in the 1960's as a concept of social anthropology called proxemics and was later adopted by medical professionals.
You can argue the accuracy (particularly as it wasn't a medical definition) but the 2 metre definition has been around for 60 years. So when Gottlieb says 'Nobody knows' origins of six-foot social-distancing recommendation then he's either lying, stupid, lazy or any combination of the three.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But personally I do think Sweden's mask policies are probably ok, good, fair enough.
Reccommend rather than mandate.
90% of people do, just for social pressure reasons or even genuine health concerns. Once we have moved from elimination, 90% is probably enough to flatten curves.
Just looking at the streets in Wellington & Wairarapa (from my experiences), it is not mandatory but kazillions of people are wearing them, and there isn't even covid within about 600kms.
Admittedly. We've had it mandated on public transport for 8 months, and behaviour seems fine in my experience.
Just don't think we should exhaust energy on or politicise something that 90% will do anyway willingly or slightly grudgingly.
Definitely wouldn't suggest an outdoor mask mandate, personally. Which Israel's seems to have had.
Masks are gooooone here in Sydney. Obvs people have to wear them inside or on public transport, but I reckon you'd be lucky to see more than 5% of people wearing them outside now. I was at Balmoral and Manly beach over the weekend, barely a mask in sight as people picnic, walk, chat to their mates.
Outdoor masks are just idiotic.
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@voodoo I am sure if you want to find it you will, but yeah I dont see much in NZ re Sweden, although I tend to scan headlines only more often than not.
Right now I reckon >75% of people I see wear masks, but follow them into a shop and not all of them scan...go figure
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo I am sure if you want to find it you will, but yeah I dont see much in NZ re Sweden, although I tend to scan headlines only more often than not.
Well of course, me too, if I actually read the articles, I would have no time left to post authoritative thoughts about them on the interweb!
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I'd be careful comparing Sweden except to other countries in Scandinavia and maybe the Nordic area. I lived there for years, Sweden tend to socially distance naturally even without Covid, seriously.
Plus immunity via natural infection may be higher in Sweden (they are well known for having let it run from early on) than Israel, but I don't have the stats to prove that.
What I do know is that official stats show 90%+ of the UK (adult??) population now has CoVid antibodies so that's about 20% greater than the vaccination rate.
Even so the problem is you have a remaining 10%-to-say-conservatively-15% of the UK population, which suggests up to 6-10 million people who are unvaccinated/have no prior immunity. And vaccines are only stopping spread of infection in 50-60% of cases with Delta in those vaccinated. It's as infectious as hell.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Outdoor masks are just idiotic.
Indeed. I've seen reasonable articles on mask effectiveness reducing spread to others in enclosed spaces, comparisons of different types cloth masks vs standard medical vs "ideal" N95 etc.
I've never seen any science justifying them outdoors ... and it has never been mandated or even recommended outdoors in the UK.
I respect elderly people wearing them outdoors though I think it's probably more a psychological self-defense mechanism so I don't blame them. And I might cross the street to avoid a heavy-breathing jogger tbh.
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ive said before, i can really only assume the idea of a mask mandate outside like we have in Vic is more around people not forgetting to put them on when going in and out and just touching them in general as we were advised not to do, once outside wear one. but the authorities havent said as much so they might just be doing it "because"
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But personally I do think Sweden's mask policies are probably ok, good, fair enough.
Reccommend rather than mandate.
90% of people do, just for social pressure reasons or even genuine health concerns. Once we have moved from elimination, 90% is probably enough to flatten curves.
Just looking at the streets in Wellington & Wairarapa (from my experiences), it is not mandatory but kazillions of people are wearing them, and there isn't even covid within about 600kms.
Admittedly. We've had it mandated on public transport for 8 months, and behaviour seems fine in my experience.
Just don't think we should exhaust energy on or politicise something that 90% will do anyway willingly or slightly grudgingly.
Definitely wouldn't suggest an outdoor mask mandate, personally. Which Israel's seems to have had.
Masks are gooooone here in Sydney. Obvs people have to wear them inside or on public transport, but I reckon you'd be lucky to see more than 5% of people wearing them outside now. I was at Balmoral and Manly beach over the weekend, barely a mask in sight as people picnic, walk, chat to their mates.
Outdoor masks are just idiotic.
TBH, I've noticed a bit of a resurgence here in the city. It could be because I live in an area of low vaccination and increasing cases, but even when I was picnicking in the inner west on Sunday I noticed that most people wore masks until they got to their spot.
It's just you entitled northern beachers bucking the trend it seems.
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@kiwiwomble when we have clients come into our building when we meet them we are supposed to wear a mask, the amount of times I walk out to reception and then have to turn around and grab one from my desk!
I am quite surprised how many I see wearing them here when walking outside or around town.
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@nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But personally I do think Sweden's mask policies are probably ok, good, fair enough.
Reccommend rather than mandate.
90% of people do, just for social pressure reasons or even genuine health concerns. Once we have moved from elimination, 90% is probably enough to flatten curves.
Just looking at the streets in Wellington & Wairarapa (from my experiences), it is not mandatory but kazillions of people are wearing them, and there isn't even covid within about 600kms.
Admittedly. We've had it mandated on public transport for 8 months, and behaviour seems fine in my experience.
Just don't think we should exhaust energy on or politicise something that 90% will do anyway willingly or slightly grudgingly.
Definitely wouldn't suggest an outdoor mask mandate, personally. Which Israel's seems to have had.
Masks are gooooone here in Sydney. Obvs people have to wear them inside or on public transport, but I reckon you'd be lucky to see more than 5% of people wearing them outside now. I was at Balmoral and Manly beach over the weekend, barely a mask in sight as people picnic, walk, chat to their mates.
Outdoor masks are just idiotic.
TBH, I've noticed a bit of a resurgence here in the city. It could be because I live in an area of low vaccination and increasing cases, but even when I was picnicking in the inner west on Sunday I noticed that most people wore masks until they got to their spot.
It's just you entitled northern beachers bucking the trend it seems.
yeah, guess the air is cleaner and worth inhaling over here mate...
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@kiwiwomble when we have clients come into our building when we meet them we are supposed to wear a mask, the amount of times I walk out to reception and then have to turn around and grab one from my desk!
I am quite surprised how many I see wearing them here when walking outside or around town.
i does happen, just this morning Mrs Womble text me from the beach to say she'd got that far without hers, first time shes forgotten it in a year and a half, she was running so was exempt anyway but i walked to to meet her for when she finished
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It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
I'm jealous, we are still meant to be wearing them and I do as I don't want to be the non-Japanese that sticks out (more than I already do).
But, even here in Japan, I've started seeing people not wearing them, which is really interesting given how compliant people usually are. On my way to the station (roughly 800 metres) I saw three people not wearing them, all over 50 (so probably double vaxxed) and just doing their thing.
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Just come back from a week in France and they are operating a bit differently to the UK. Mandatory mask wearing in all shops, cafes, restaurants etc with a high degree of compliance. Obviously in cafes and restaurants once you are sitting down and eating/drinking you are not expected to wear one... except for one small cafe in St Malo on the way back. Everyone sitting down, inside and out and not wearing masks. We walked in, wearing ours and then sat down and took them off. Less than five minutes in and I had a French guy asking me if we had masks. I replied that we did but as we were sitting down we didn't have to wear them. He seemed a bit put out by this (he was wearing his mask on his arm. His bloody arm). The rest of the cafe joined in asking if we were vaccinated and most were satisfied with our answer except the protagonist who got up and walked out, still not wearing his mask.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Just come back from a week in France and they are operating a bit differently to the UK. Mandatory mask wearing in all shops, cafes, restaurants etc with a high degree of compliance. Obviously in cafes and restaurants once you are sitting down and eating/drinking you are not expected to wear one... except for one small cafe in St Malo on the way back. Everyone sitting down, inside and out and not wearing masks. We walked in, wearing ours and then sat down and took them off. Less than five minutes in and I had a French guy asking me if we had masks. I replied that we did but as we were sitting down we didn't have to wear them. He seemed a bit put out by this (he was wearing his mask on his arm. His bloody arm). The rest of the cafe joined in asking if we were vaccinated and most were satisfied with our answer except the protagonist who got up and walked out, still not wearing his mask.
Was he muttering something about his contrat de sous-marin?
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No. It was before we ganged up with the Convicts and the Seppos to shaft the Frogs.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Just come back from a week in France and they are operating a bit differently to the UK. Mandatory mask wearing in all shops, cafes, restaurants etc with a high degree of compliance. Obviously in cafes and restaurants once you are sitting down and eating/drinking you are not expected to wear one... except for one small cafe in St Malo on the way back. Everyone sitting down, inside and out and not wearing masks. We walked in, wearing ours and then sat down and took them off. Less than five minutes in and I had a French guy asking me if we had masks. I replied that we did but as we were sitting down we didn't have to wear them. He seemed a bit put out by this (he was wearing his mask on his arm. His bloody arm). The rest of the cafe joined in asking if we were vaccinated and most were satisfied with our answer except the protagonist who got up and walked out, still not wearing his mask.
No amount of mask can contain your englishness
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Just come back from a week in France and they are operating a bit differently to the UK. Mandatory mask wearing in all shops, cafes, restaurants etc with a high degree of compliance. Obviously in cafes and restaurants once you are sitting down and eating/drinking you are not expected to wear one... except for one small cafe in St Malo on the way back. Everyone sitting down, inside and out and not wearing masks. We walked in, wearing ours and then sat down and took them off. Less than five minutes in and I had a French guy asking me if we had masks. I replied that we did but as we were sitting down we didn't have to wear them. He seemed a bit put out by this (he was wearing his mask on his arm. His bloody arm). The rest of the cafe joined in asking if we were vaccinated and most were satisfied with our answer except the protagonist who got up and walked out, still not wearing his mask.
No amount of mask can contain your englishness
But I had a moustache and was wearing a blue and white striped t shirt???
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It's amazing how different various parts of the world are now. In the UK I haven't put on a mask at all since late July.
Signs are still up in the tube/trains to wear a mask, but only about a quarter of people do. Staff members and ticket inspectors don't.
Yep
Came abroad on Monday evening
Next to no one wearing them in London
Great
Mineβs in my pocket for now
Coronavirus - Overall