AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass
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@taniwharugby said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Been watching plenty of old stuff recently (well, 90's and early 00's) and is noticable how quick scrums were set and how few resets, sure some descended into a shambles, but looked solid most of the time, granted on average they players were about 15kgs lighter per man than today...
It was less of a physical battle in those days and more of a contest for the ball by the hookers. The half backs actually had to put the ball in straight.....
That said, there were some big guys around then. Jazz Muller weighed in at around 19st IIRC and was seriously fast - easily outran a Welsh winger in one game.
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@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Here's the highlights of the 3rd Test in '77 - one of the great AB performances. Quite a few examples of how good Robertson was from the first minute. And a last-minute drop goal Dan Carter would drool over.
Hearing Keith Quinn takes me back a few years. I reckon he captured the tension perfectly.
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@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mariner4life yeah nah. Jones was a more gifted 7 IMO.
Wilson? Who is the demented one?? None of the various Wilsons would get near a best ever XV
Not even Bevan?
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@taniwharugby said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew first try would have been called back today with Kirkpatrick ahead of Bruce and carried on moving forward.
Been watching plenty of old stuff recently (well, 90's and early 00's) and is noticable how quick scrums were set and how few resets, sure some descended into a shambles, but looked solid most of the time, granted on average they players were about 15kgs lighter per man than today...
A few more spinal injuries in those days, which has led us to where we are now.
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@crazy-horse said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Here's the highlights of the 3rd Test in '77 - one of the great AB performances. Quite a few examples of how good Robertson was from the first minute. And a last-minute drop goal Dan Carter would drool over.
Hearing Keith Quinn takes me back a few years. I reckon he captured the tension perfectly.
It was a must-win game for the ABs on a Lion's tour which made the sour 2005 tour seem like happy hour. Fuck, there was some unpleasantness on that '77 tour.
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@booboo said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mariner4life yeah nah. Jones was a more gifted 7 IMO.
Wilson? Who is the demented one?? None of the various Wilsons would get near a best ever XV
Not even Bevan?
Could have been a contender. Huge promise and maturity for a young bloke, but injuries killed his career IIRC.
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@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@crazy-horse said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Here's the highlights of the 3rd Test in '77 - one of the great AB performances. Quite a few examples of how good Robertson was from the first minute. And a last-minute drop goal Dan Carter would drool over.
Hearing Keith Quinn takes me back a few years. I reckon he captured the tension perfectly.
It was a must-win game for the ABs on a Lion's tour which made the sour 2005 tour seem like happy hour. Fuck, there was some unpleasantness on that '77 tour.
I was only 7 at the time, but I was old enough to be aware of real tension within the country as to how we would go. From memory they had some tough forwards, handy backs and there had been some brutal provincial games in the lead up. I miss tours.
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the prime centres of my lifetime are Stanley, Bunce, and Smith. none would disgrace this side.
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@dogmeat What about Whineray? He must have been a nominee at loosehead?
Different game in those days. I'm currently meandering McLean's book on the 1961 French tour - according to him, Dennis Young was pretty clearly the best hooker in the world in his era - due to the speed of his strike, when hooking. A superior hooker could earn tightheads with the frequency superior locks can win opposition ball at lineouts these days. Young won four against the head in one test and in other books I've read of him getting eight or nine in tour matches.
Whomever wrote above that Kaino, McCaw, Read > Collins, McCaw, Rodders simply on lineouts was right. Our hookers' inability to throw into lineouts was miraculously cured when we suddenly had more than two genuine lineout options.
It's a big part of why I am not keen to see Ardie playing other than 7. No matter how much hair he grows, he's not going to be a match for a genuine lineout forward.
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@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@crucial said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@Nepia is a bit slow to come in and claim Robertson for HB today.
Hastings Boys, you lot poached him straight out of school, so he didn't get the chance to wear the Magpies jersey at senior level.
He never wanted to
Wasn't a poach at all. He left that hole for the excitement of Ardmore Teachers Training College and we showed him how to play exciting rugby while he was there.Seriously though Counties was the best place for him to go in those days. They played with an attacking and counter attacking mindset that suited his skills perfectly. Better than getting cold standing around in the HB backline.
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@booboo said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Fuck all the way off!
Peak Kaino/MCaw/Read (2010 version ... they operated just under peak in 2011) was easily not just the best All Blac loose forward trio ever but probably the best alll time.
Way under peak in 2011 after Read was injured in Brisbane and McCaw having a broken foot.
That 2004-2006 run including the Lions sweep and Grand Slam is maybe too far in the past now but I can't think of a test during that period where that trio were outplayed - except for Rustenburg.
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@sparky said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@kiwiinmelb Too young to remember Robertson but old enough to remember how fantastic Bunce was in the mid-90s. Great in attack, brilliant in defence. His performance against the Boks in 97 is right up there with Lomu against England in 95 and Carter against the Lions in 05 IMHO.
Bunce was awesome , and probably brought a different dimension to the position with his defense, bunce was more ruthless ,
I think most that saw Robertson play though just remember how beautiful he was to watch with ball in hand , it was mesmerising
But im also probably a bit one eyed watching him play a bit at club level with the old man down at ardmore
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@dogmeat said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@booboo Not even Richard
Had to Google am ashamed to say.
Of course he replaced Clive Currie in 78. (And the Welsh have the temerity to complain about a lineout dive that wasn't even penalised ... )
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@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
From what I have read and seen on video Whineray was like the Bull Allen of his era - mobile, athletic but not the best scrummager. He had a lineout move named after him for that reason. An outstanding captain too.
Yeah - McLean writes that, "there was just a touch of truth to Toft's observation that he was the world's best prop and the world's worst packer". But, otherwise he's effusive in his praise - unhesitatingly acclaims him as NZ's greatest captain and brilliant around the park.
Problem with picking lots of these old guys is that Whineray weighed less than 100kgs - so he's sort of Anton-Lienert Brown playing prop.
Even when you come to Michael Jones, his AB profile lists him as 98kgs - which I'm guessing dates from his time at 7.
These days, he'd have to pack another 10 kgs on to play openside and that's going to affect his speed and endurance. We'll probably never see a 7 playing like him again in the ABs, because you have to get too big to be that mobile.
Christian Cullen at 85kgs is basically DMac sized and is going to be similarly rag-dolled on occasion if he's playing today.
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@bovidae said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
From what I have read and seen on video Whineray was like the Bull Allen of his era - mobile, athletic but not the best scrummager. He had a lineout move named after him for that reason. An outstanding captain too.
Yeah - McLean writes that, "there was just a touch of truth to Toft's observation that he was the world's best prop and the world's worst packer". But, otherwise he's effusive in his praise - unhesitatingly acclaims him as NZ's greatest captain and brilliant around the park.
Problem with picking lots of these old guys is that Whineray weighed less than 100kgs - so he's sort of Anton-Lienert Brown playing prop.
Even when you come to Michael Jones, his AB profile lists him as 98kgs - which I'm guessing dates from his time at 7.
These days, he'd have to pack another 10 kgs on to play openside and that's going to affect his speed and endurance. We'll probably never see a 7 playing like him again in the ABs, because you have to get too big to be that mobile.
Christian Cullen at 85kgs is basically DMac sized and is going to be similarly rag-dolled on occasion if he's playing today.
Highly doubtful, Cullens strength and conditioning was exceptional even by todays standards. He did sometimes get smashed but he always got right back up.
