Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?
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@bovidae said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Deans shouldn't be anywhere near this discussion. His best years had gone by the time he was first-choice in 1988. Otherwise, let's put Andrew Donald in there too!
Steve "sweet passing" Devine!
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@nostrildamus yeah the rumour was more around Deans thumping Fox. I was being polite to Fox. It was something to do with Fox dissing Robbie. Probably just a rumour that teenage me fell for.
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@crucial said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Sid Going - as a running halfback he would have been dynamite on these manicured fields. Def up there is the discussions of 'best'
Mark Donaldson - under-rated. Perhaps not among the 'best' allrounders but you don't get a nickname like Bullet without a good pass. His disjointed career and the arrival of Loveridge probably meant that we never saw the number of games he deserved
And Bullet apparently was at a Manawatu training and started Nugget on his journey with passing. -
If I was naming ones that really stick out for me
Nugget Smith is probably best
Trapper Loveridge
Graeme Bachop
Chris Laidlaw
Marshall and Going, after the first 2 I named not real sure of order, and even Trapper I was probably heavily influenced by being at Lions game at Athletic Park when he put on a masterclass of a 9 controlling a game. -
@mariner4life said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Smith is not only the best 9 i've seen play for the ABs, he's the best 9 i have ever seen (and i thought Joost would take that mantle forever)
His speed to the ruck, his ability to maintain that speed for a whole game, his support lines, his ruck organisation, his organisation of his forward pods (when allowed) is absolutely top shelf. He also has a pretty handy kicking game, and a good run game if the opposition opens up.
But that pass... the speed and width allows us to attack of 2-ball at the lineout FFS. He's creating space for his first receiver no one else gets. And that's 2 tries in 2 games that occur as a direct result of him delivering a wide flat ball putting a guy on an outside shoulder right on the line.
People always seem tob e looking for reasons not to call him the best (oooh, Connor Murray can box kick, ooooh) but Smith is the fucking man. By far and away our most important player right now.
Great post, agree with all but one thing I want to add is Azza's vision.
He has the ability to see the open man where a good player would only see bodies.
And then he unleashes the bullet pass straight to the player he intended after it whizzes past 2 or 3 players who have the sense to let it go past them.
Amazing!
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@roninwc said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@mariner4life said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Smith is not only the best 9 i've seen play for the ABs, he's the best 9 i have ever seen (and i thought Joost would take that mantle forever)
His speed to the ruck, his ability to maintain that speed for a whole game, his support lines, his ruck organisation, his organisation of his forward pods (when allowed) is absolutely top shelf. He also has a pretty handy kicking game, and a good run game if the opposition opens up.
But that pass... the speed and width allows us to attack of 2-ball at the lineout FFS. He's creating space for his first receiver no one else gets. And that's 2 tries in 2 games that occur as a direct result of him delivering a wide flat ball putting a guy on an outside shoulder right on the line.
People always seem tob e looking for reasons not to call him the best (oooh, Connor Murray can box kick, ooooh) but Smith is the fucking man. By far and away our most important player right now.
Great post, agree with all but one thing I want to add is Azza's vision.
He has the ability to see the open man where a good player would only see bodies.
And then he unleashes the bullet pass straight to the player he intended after it whizzes past 2 or 3 players who have the sense to let it go past them.
Amazing!
Watched a programme about him on tv, and he actually got this game he plays to sharpen his mind and to get him to try and see things quickly, he seems to leave no stone unturned to try and make himself better.
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@act-crusader said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@kiwiwomble said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
I’ll add, Stu Forster had a lovely passing game, would obviously struggle size wise in the modern game
Always have, always will rate smith as one of if not the best
Forster, yeah. The old memory couldn’t remember them all. I’d have him in the third category but probably higher than most of them.
Absolutely imperious in some glorious Otago sides in the early to mid 90s. He'd have been a Super Rugby star but was only a fringe AB. So much fun to watch the wee guy go.
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@roninwc said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
He has the ability to see the open man where a good player would only see bodies.
That was one of Piri's strenghts too - hitting the right body in traffic. It was nuts.
Smith is just the complete package though, hard to see a weak area - there are only areas that are 'very very good' rather than 'world class'
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QUIZ ALERT
In the last 500 players selected for the All Blacks (ie players #698 to #1198), how many halfbacks have there been?
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Was in awe at what Trapper Loveridge did on the field as a young fella. The second test against the Lions in 1983 (?) where he took control was one of the greatest halfback performances you'll ever see (thanks to The Breakdown for the reminder).
And now, I also think A.Smith is something really special. He is just the complete package who influences the game just like Loveridge did.
The others I saw, Donaldson, Bachop, Marshall, Kelleher (sp?) etc, all had strong points whether passing, running or defense but were not the complete package like Loveridge or Smith.
I never saw Going or Laidlaw- too young
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@old-samurai-jack said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Was in awe at what Trapper Loveridge did on the field as a young fella. The second test against the Lions in 1983 (?) where he took control was one of the greatest halfback performances you'll ever see (thanks to The Breakdown for the reminder).
And now, I also think A.Smith is something really special. He is just the complete package who influences the game just like Loveridge did.
The others I saw, Donaldson, Bachop, Marshall, Kelleher (sp?) etc, all had strong points whether passing, running or defense but were not the complete package like Loveridge or Smith.
I never saw Going or Laidlaw- too youngyeah I think i would go Smith first , Loveridge second ,
if it was pissing with rain I might go Marshall , great wet weather half back
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@act-crusader said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
QUIZ ALERT
In the last 500 players selected for the All Blacks (ie players #698 to #1198), how many halfbacks have there been?
Mathematically, there probably should have been 35-40 - but, due to Smith and Marshall's long tenures especially, I'm going to say less than that. 30.
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@chris-b said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@act-crusader said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
QUIZ ALERT
In the last 500 players selected for the All Blacks (ie players #698 to #1198), how many halfbacks have there been?
Mathematically, there probably should have been 35-40 - but, due to Smith and Marshall's long tenures especially, I'm going to say less than that. 30.
I wonder how many years that is? More games in recent years should mean more new ABs
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@chris-b said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@act-crusader said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
QUIZ ALERT
In the last 500 players selected for the All Blacks (ie players #698 to #1198), how many halfbacks have there been?
Mathematically, there probably should have been 35-40 - but, due to Smith and Marshall's long tenures especially, I'm going to say less than that. 30.
Closer on your first assumption. It’s 38.
I thought low 30s before doing the research, given this dates back to selections first made in the early 70s when there were tour games and starting XVs that played 80 minutes.
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QUIZ ALERT #2
Name the 38 halfbacks? If you can pick where they are in the order then an extra virtual chocolate fish for you.
I’ll get things started with a couple of hints:
1 - Finlay Christie
18 - Byron Kelleher
29 - David Kirk
