Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
you know what is going to fuck me off?
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.
Yeah I think at one stage Alastair Cook had played about twice as many tests as Ross Taylor despite them debuting around the same time and being about the same age ?
The lack of respect shits me too. How good would a five test series be against this English team ?
I remember when Taylor was mid-career I used that Cook comparison when extrapolating his stats.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
That's also an interesting question.
The Indians aren't going to have many left handers.
Edit: Actually, the might only have Pant in the top order.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
That's also an interesting question.
The Indians aren't going to have many left handers.
He’s been left behind by Wags and Southee and then overshadowed by Jamison. Will look up his stats but I’d be surprised if they have been that good recently
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
That's also an interesting question.
The Indians aren't going to have many left handers.
He’s been left behind by Wags and Southee and then overshadowed by Jamison. Will look up his stats but I’d be surprised if they have been that good recently
Relatively speaking Boult has been the worst performer of that four lately.
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Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothingwrong with Boults figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
Wagner's are incredible really, 68 wickets from just 13 tests.
Southee nearly just as great, 72 wickets from 15 tests. -
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
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Should be noted that India's main fast bowlers, Bumrah, Sharma and Shami have all had almost identical figures the last 2 or 3 years as well.
The top 11 fast bowlers the last 3 years includes our 3 and their 3.
So not sure if theres much of an advantage there. -
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
Shit a brick those are great figures. The fact that someone is dragging the chain relatively speaking but still striking at 27 is absolutely incredible.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
So, you're sure we shouldn't go with Satnav's 7@87.28?
That's a bit cruel.
Ajaz is pretty good. 13 @25.07
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
You can see the same thing a few decades ago where Shaun Pollock, who could certainly hold a bat, but by no means was a match winner, got his average to around 32 within a run of Botham/Flintoff/Cairns on two test centuries.
To me CdG with the bat is an overqualified 8 or below average 7. While totally different in his method he is pretty similar to Vettori in reliability and effectiveness; very much in it to win it against SL/Pakistan/Windies/Bangles and finds it much tougher going against the top teams although not totally out of his depth as his returns in Australia show.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
So, you're sure we shouldn't go with Satnav's 7@87.28?
That's a bit cruel.
Ajaz is pretty good. 13 @25.07
fuck the spinner, he's not going to trouble the Indians anyway. Pick the 4 good seamers in England and back them to roll through them
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
So, you're sure we shouldn't go with Satnav's 7@87.28?
That's a bit cruel.
Ajaz is pretty good. 13 @25.07
fuck the spinner, he's not going to trouble the Indians anyway. Pick the 4 good seamers in England and back them to roll through them
Testify!!!
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
You can see the same thing a few decades ago where Shaun Pollock, who could certainly hold a bat, but by no means was a match winner, got his average to around 32 within a run of Botham/Flintoff/Cairns on two test centuries.
To me CdG with the bat is an overqualified 8 or below average 7. While totally different in his method he is pretty similar to Vettori in reliability and effectiveness; very much in it to win it against SL/Pakistan/Windies/Bangles and finds it much tougher going against the top teams although not totally out of his depth as his returns in Australia show.
Possibly unfair to compare hundreds with Stokes, he’s played a lot more tests but I will concede he has improved a lot with the willow of late.
I don’t disagree with any of this at all but it comes back to my initial point of whoever getting picked will have flaws. You just need to balance those of CDGH against Patel ( a genuine tailender, juror out whether he can trouble the Indians ) Santner ( can’t take wickets, horribly inconsistent batsman ) or Mitchell ( inexperienced, not much to suggest he can be a dominant bowler at this level )
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
True. Different teams though. I can't answer this - but how many times has CDG been sent out to smack quick runs compared to the others having to rescue the team when their top order had failed? How often has he even had the time to score a ton? Ben Stokes also has 71 tests compared to 25 so not much to compare there in terms of centuries.
We have also won quite a few tests convincingly more recently with this team. 25 matches and 38 innings for CDG (around 1.5 innings per test), Oram 33 and 59, so nearly always had to bat twice, Stokes 71 and 130 basically bats 2 innings every time on the field. Just different circumstances.
I also believe that we need to hedge our bets with a fifth bowler. Ferg going down in Perth was a disaster and set the tone for the whole series. Sure this a one off, but could 3 of the 4 get through the overs required if someone went down? We don't have our usual batsman that can bowl a bit (Kane doesn't want to).
Just surmising about all of it but an injury would really leave us with 3 bowlers.
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Cool. Tim Paine has given India the kiss of death.
A bonus chance to put some egg on face.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Cool. Tim Paine has given India the kiss of death.
A bonus chance to put some egg on face.
At least our keeper can score hundreds you Australian Fuck.
Jeepers, I’m channeling a lot of @Virgil with that post.
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@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
At least our keeper can score hundreds you Australian Fuck.
Jeepers, I’m channeling a lot of @Virgil with that post.Yes, but you are both right as is @mariner4life .
