Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
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@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@majorrage said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Aggers, Vaughan and Ramprakash had articles on the BBC website, can't find Vaughan's now and his was the most OTT - as I said, suggesting that Robinson should be re-educated. Aggers was more reasoned but when stating that it was obvious that Robinson was, at the time of his tweets, a teenager with his own problems, still wanted him hung out to dry. Ramprakash was piling into Boris saying that his comments were "unwelcome". FFS unwelcome to whom? What does that even really mean?
One of them said something along the lines of the dressing room would bee very different with Ali & Archer in there, as opposed to the 11 white faces that it is now.
So that's nice of them to speak on behalf of the two non-white players. Who might, just might, feel that they live a world where they are allowed to have their own opinions.
Clever of them to know how other people feel.
Indeed. You'd actually think if Robinson did hold some pretty outdated racist views, this may have come up earlier than when he was 27 and making his test debut.
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Ok, so apparently he should “lose his career” over all of this
Robinson should 'lose career' for racist and sexist tweets, says former cricketer
Former England cricketer Michael Carberry says people like Ollie Robinson should ‘lose their careers’ after the bowler was suspended for historic racist and sexist social media posts. R…
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
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@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
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@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
It’s bloody hard to think of a world class batsman who didn’t have at least a brief stint as captain. I can think of maybe Jacques Kallis…..any others ?
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
It’s bloody hard to think of a world class batsman who didn’t have at least a brief stint as captain. I can think of maybe Jacques Kallis…..any others ?
Matthew Hayden?
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@gunner said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
It’s bloody hard to think of a world class batsman who didn’t have at least a brief stint as captain. I can think of maybe Jacques Kallis…..any others ?
Matthew Hayden?
Good call cos turns out I was wrong about Kallis.
@Chris-B yeah there will be a few Aussies of recent vintage who never got a go although perhaps Hayden is the only really world class one.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@gunner said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
It’s bloody hard to think of a world class batsman who didn’t have at least a brief stint as captain. I can think of maybe Jacques Kallis…..any others ?
Matthew Hayden?
Good call cos turns out I was wrong about Kallis.
@Chris-B yeah there will be a few Aussies of recent vintage who never got a go although perhaps Hayden is the only really world class one.
I guess it depends on how you define world class.
It could be "Would make any test team" at some point - or more demanding "Would make the World XI".
At various times, I'd say Langer and Mark Waugh met the latter criteria. A bit later, Mike Hussey.
Some of those guys might have had an odd game as captain, when the designated captain was injured or rested.
Gordon Greenidge would fit that bill, I think. Virender Sehwag? Everton Weekes. David Warner. John Reid Jr. Devon Conway.
Deeper in the past there would be plenty, I suspect.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@gunner said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@catogrande said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@dogmeat said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Re England's non acceptance of the declaration challenge. Yeah sure Root can do whatever he wants but maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have been talking himself and the team up less than a week earlier - We are going all out to wing all 7 tests this summer.
Didn't realise 'all out' meant feebly making no attempt at all to chase a very generous declaration.
England need a new captain IMO. Root's never been up to it. He seems incapable of making a decision on the field and has hardly led by example.
Classic case of assuming the best batsman ( and he is by a greater gulf than KW is to the rest of the BCs ) will make the best captain. It’s 50/50 at best.
It’s a bit Hobson’s choice though. Who are the other options? Stokes maybe but that’s about it.
Based on what ?>
Assuming you mean the Stokes comment? Based on the fact that apart from Root and two ageing fast bowlers his name is the only certainty on the team sheet.
Beefy Botham was a shit captain by all accounts. Good player doesn’t always mean good captain.
Yep. It was an interesting comparison back in the day, you had Botham as a brilliant cricketer but a mediocre captain and Brearley as a brilliant captain but a mediocre (at test level) batsman.
Well if you put it that way then yeah perhaps Stokes is the last man standing.
Beefy raved about Brearley as a captain in his book. Said he had an uncanny knack for reading people and situations. I was shocked to discover quite how crapola his test record was though.
It was no surprise that when he hung up his spikes he went into psychiatry.
It’s bloody hard to think of a world class batsman who didn’t have at least a brief stint as captain. I can think of maybe Jacques Kallis…..any others ?
Matthew Hayden?
Good call cos turns out I was wrong about Kallis.
@Chris-B yeah there will be a few Aussies of recent vintage who never got a go although perhaps Hayden is the only really world class one.
I guess it depends on how you define world class.
It could be "Would make any test team" at some point - or more demanding "Would make the World XI".
At various times, I'd say Langer and Mark Waugh met the latter criteria. A bit later, Mike Hussey.
Some of those guys might have had an odd game as captain, when the designated captain was injured or rested.
Gordon Greenidge would fit that bill, I think. Virender Sehwag? Everton Weekes. David Warner. John Reid Jr. Devon Conway.
Deeper in the past there would be plenty, I suspect.
Way to put pressure on a young fella
But yeah, trawl a list of the top ten test run scorers, ALL varying degrees of great and ALL have captained their countries at one stage or another ( even very briefly in Kallis’s case )
Langer, Hussey and M Waugh were never ever the best batsmen in their team so I wouldn’t count them.
You actually need to get down to VVS Laxman ( again, a bloody good player but overshadowed by Tendulkar, Dravid and Sehwag ) at 19 to find someone who didn’t captain the test team at least once.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
But yeah, trawl a list of the top ten test run scorers, ALL varying degrees of great and ALL have captained their countries at one stage or another ( even very briefly in Kallis’s case )
There is a good cohort of basically placeholder captains that only had it for a year or so or due to injury or off field issues like Kallis, Sehwag, Chanderpaul, Pietersen, Taylor, Yousuf, Sangakarra etc.
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@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Williamson out, Young in and Latham to skipper.
There might be even more changes. Southee could be rested and both Mitchell and Patel selected for CdG and Santner, respectively.
Satnav is a definite out due to injury. Hoping Patel has a blinder and forces the selectors to consider him for Southhampton.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Williamson out, Young in and Latham to skipper.
There might be even more changes. Southee could be rested and both Mitchell and Patel selected for CdG and Santner, respectively.
Satnav is a definite out due to injury. Hoping Patel has a blinder and forces the selectors to consider him for Southhampton.
“New Zealand Spinner” and “Blinder”.
There’s a combination of words I’m not sure I’ve ever heard.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Williamson out, Young in and Latham to skipper.
There might be even more changes. Southee could be rested and both Mitchell and Patel selected for CdG and Santner, respectively.
Satnav is a definite out due to injury. Hoping Patel has a blinder and forces the selectors to consider him for Southhampton.
“New Zealand Spinner” and “Blinder”.
There’s a combination of words I’m not sure I’ve ever heard.
I know. It's a big ask but Satnav sets the bar low.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Williamson out, Young in and Latham to skipper.
There might be even more changes. Southee could be rested and both Mitchell and Patel selected for CdG and Santner, respectively.
Satnav is a definite out due to injury. Hoping Patel has a blinder and forces the selectors to consider him for Southhampton.
“New Zealand Spinner” and “Blinder”.
There’s a combination of words I’m not sure I’ve ever heard.
I know. It's a big ask but Satnav sets the bar low.
Mark Craig and Jeetan Patel say hi.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@bovidae said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@shark said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Williamson out, Young in and Latham to skipper.
There might be even more changes. Southee could be rested and both Mitchell and Patel selected for CdG and Santner, respectively.
Satnav is a definite out due to injury. Hoping Patel has a blinder and forces the selectors to consider him for Southhampton.
“New Zealand Spinner” and “Blinder”.
There’s a combination of words I’m not sure I’ve ever heard.
I know. It's a big ask but Satnav sets the bar low.
Mark Craig says hi.
Quick check shows that Boock and Vettori tied at 7/87 as the 11th best innings bowling performances all time (NZ).
Boock v Pakistan in Pakistan.
Dan v Oz at Eden Park.EDIT: actuall Mark Craig comes in at 14 with 7/94 in Pakistan as well.
