Japan and Super Rugby
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Isn't the problem with Japan the comp timings? Having a franchise like the Sunwolves is the right idea but like the Jaguares it needs to be a pseudo national side with players drawn from across the well established domestic comps.
If Super can dangle a big enough carrot in so far as player development and exposure to Japan Rugby then maybe there is an opportunity for the domestic calendar to change. -
This would awesome, whether it is an integrated SR comp, or after a domestic Champions Cup type format. Going to Japan is a great idea, they have potential audiesnce, money and the time zone works - very similar SA and Europe. Travel is not too bad, or won't be once Covid is under control (
)However it looks I hope it goes forward.
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@machpants yeah I agree but if the comp is integrated fully with them, which is like 15 teams or something then won't the product just be diluted completely?
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@yeetyaah said in Japan and Super Rugby:
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think the Japanese sides will get thrashed every week. I've watched a small amount of top league but from what I've seen the games are messy. Excitement factor is big don't get me wrong, but their game is frantic.
You’re right, although I think some of the bigger clubs will be able to invest and get more competitive after being exposed to the competition (which I assume will be a Champions league style event for the top six Japanese teams, plus all Oz and NZ teams).
Assuming that to be the case, the NZRFU could also allow players from NZ to play in Oz and Japan after being capped and getting a certain number of caps. That would provide pathways for players to get paid while strengthening the competition with more kiwi players. For example Barrett, TJP, Moody, Whitelock, and other senior ABs could play in those leagues.
One issue would be the length of the Japanese season and the impact of that much playing time on those players. I’m not sure how to get around that or whether we want to commit to that extent, but rugby in Japan is a market which has some growth potential/money that we could take further advantage of.
Finally, if we were to do that, I wonder whether SA would want to come back? A champions league style competition following SRSA could be a good solution for them too. That would allow for 4 pools of 6 teams or we could have 6 pools of 4 teams.
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@gt12 said in Japan and Super Rugby:
@yeetyaah said in Japan and Super Rugby:
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think the Japanese sides will get thrashed every week. I've watched a small amount of top league but from what I've seen the games are messy. Excitement factor is big don't get me wrong, but their game is frantic.
You’re right, although I think some of the bigger clubs will be able to invest and get more competitive after being exposed to the competition (which I assume will be a Champions league style event for the top six Japanese teams, plus all Oz and NZ teams).
Assuming that to be the case, the NZRFU could also allow players from NZ to play in Oz and Japan after being capped and getting a certain number of caps. That would provide pathways for players to get paid while strengthening the competition with more kiwi players. For example Barrett, TJP, Moody, Whitelock, and other senior ABs could play in those leagues.
One issue would be the length of the Japanese season and the impact of that much playing time on those players. I’m not sure how to get around that or whether we want to commit to that extent, but rugby in Japan is a market which has some growth potential/money that we could take further advantage of.
Finally, if we were to do that, I wonder whether SA would want to come back? A champions league style competition following SRSA could be a good solution for them too. That would allow for 4 pools of 6 teams or we could have 6 pools of 4 teams.
I don't find the idea all that exciting, unless we could get a champion's league with SA teams in it. And it should be played during super season, so evey month or so you could play a Champions league game, like they do in NH.
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@machpants said in Japan and Super Rugby:
@yeetyaah It won't be any different than Oz, Drua, or Moana Pacific!
It could be different, as the Japanese teams aren't set up to fail. If they wanted to they could quickly adapt via recruitment. But, that's only if they want to. The Japanese corporate teams are a bit weird.
- Moana Pacific are structurally designed to be also-rans, recruiting from the leftover Polynesian talent.
- Oz teams are not designed to be also-rans, but they are structurally doomed to be constrained by the unintended consequences of their own central contracting model requiring x% Australia eligable (and by NZ's model not allowing All Blacks to play for non-NZ franchises). So are limited by having 3 teams of talent spread over 5 teams. So, about 3 or 4 also-rans if one of the teams manages to concentrate some talent.
- Drua are not set up to fail, like the others, but reality means they will be constrained by their finances. So, fun, but Also Rans.
No doubt in my mind that the Japanese teams would initially be a bit crap, though, compared to NZ. But OK against the rest.
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so....
NZ super teams are currently too strong
we knock off the NZ super franchise and go back to NPC, i a bit more investment that has been lacking for a while now
top five NPC teams then play in a champions league comp against the Aussie Teams and top Japanese teams?
top 2-3 NPC will often be the same but there could be real competition for the 3-5 which might make it very interesting
NZR might have to sacrifice a little for long term gain, drop back a bit to a level where we can help bring the whole region up
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@gt12 said in Japan and Super Rugby:
@yeetyaah said in Japan and Super Rugby:
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think the Japanese sides will get thrashed every week. I've watched a small amount of top league but from what I've seen the games are messy. Excitement factor is big don't get me wrong, but their game is frantic.
You’re right, although I think some of the bigger clubs will be able to invest and get more competitive after being exposed to the competition (which I assume will be a Champions league style event for the top six Japanese teams, plus all Oz and NZ teams).
Assuming that to be the case, the NZRFU could also allow players from NZ to play in Oz and Japan after being capped and getting a certain number of caps. That would provide pathways for players to get paid while strengthening the competition with more kiwi players. For example Barrett, TJP, Moody, Whitelock, and other senior ABs could play in those leagues.
One issue would be the length of the Japanese season and the impact of that much playing time on those players. I’m not sure how to get around that or whether we want to commit to that extent, but rugby in Japan is a market which has some growth potential/money that we could take further advantage of.
Finally, if we were to do that, I wonder whether SA would want to come back? A champions league style competition following SRSA could be a good solution for them too. That would allow for 4 pools of 6 teams or we could have 6 pools of 4 teams.
This.
I’ve always felt that Japan is the solution to our problems. We don’t have the cash, but they do. They don’t have (many) world class players, we have shitloads. I have no problem with NZ players playing for Japanese teams if it means they’ll be playing in a comp with NZ teams. It’s not ideal but I can’t think of a better alternative. It keeps them relatively close to home and ensures good coin for those who may be tempted to go to Europe and thus become ineligible for the ABs.
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Shaun Johnson considering rugby stint
Kiwis veteran Shaun Johnson is considering a move to Japanese rugby as it weighs up his options after his current NRL contract with the Cronulla Sharks. Th
maybe this is the way forward, let the Japanese clubs pillage from aussie League clubs
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Japan and Super Rugby:
I’ve always felt that Japan is the solution to our problems. We don’t have the cash, but they do. They don’t have (many) world class players, we have shitloads. I have no problem with NZ players playing for Japanese teams if it means they’ll be playing in a comp with NZ teams. It’s not ideal but I can’t think of a better alternative. It keeps them relatively close to home and ensures good coin for those who may be tempted to go to Europe and thus become ineligible for the ABs.
I agree completely - but they are also in the NH, so their summer is our winter. Otherwise a match made in heaven ... swap rugby players for yen
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@nzzp is that really even a thing anymore? super rugby starts in feb etc
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@kiwiwomble said in Japan and Super Rugby:
@nzzp is that really even a thing anymore? super rugby starts in feb etc
yeah, but the club and other rugby is played in winter ... so you disconnect your actual amateur game for the sake of the Super.
And what do the pro players do in winter?
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Probably more of the RC thing, but after watching Japan v lions, it may not have been super close but Japan plays an attractive style of rugby, fun to watch and I honestly think they’re not a million miles of being more competitive, they’re results In the last couple of RWC obviously promising too
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@kiwiwomble said in Japan and Super Rugby:
Probably more of the RC thing, but after watching Japan v lions, it may not have been super close but Japan plays an attractive style of rugby, fun to watch and I honestly think they’re not a million miles of being more competitive, they’re results In the last couple of RWC obviously promising too
Yeah, I wonder if basing both the Drua and Moana Pasifika out of Japan would have been a good idea.
They could have set it up with a 50/50 split of players from Japan versus MP and Drua, and been able to help out three second tier nations.
If there were 50% locals in the team, JP fans would turn out too, and there would be a place for the Himeno's etc to get better.
