Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?
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@dagrubster said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Danny, you can't blame an individual for wanting to progress their career.
Razor has had incredible success in his coaching career to date and was seen by most people as the outstanding candidate to succeed Hansen.
we clearly saw that NZ rugby is not a meritocracy by appointing fozzie. This would have been a painful public process for Robertson to go through to ultimately be rejected.
There is a danger that Robertson doesn't progress as a coach due to him being in the Crusaders role for a long time and not challenging himself and being in a comfort zone. from what I have seen, he is not the kind of person to settle for that scenario.
The England role would be a huge opportunity but would also be a massive challenge for him on all fronts and ultimately make him better.
The NZR have actively encouraged our coaches to seek international experience, which ultimately has been to our detriment.
The danger is that Robertson goes overseas, paid a huge amount of money, raises his profile considerably and it becomes very hard for NZR to lure him back after fozzie oversees a disappointing campaign in a couple of years (which looks likely on the evidence so far).
so you cant blame Roberston for looking after himself, especially as there is uncertainty about his career progression in the NZ game
Hi Grubs, but you can say that about any coach or player. I recall when a certain Robbie Deans didn't get a gig as AB coach, his option went well didn't it. And if Razor decides to go overseas , it up to Razor, don't blame anyone else is all I say. I a real fan of his as a coach, but even he said he has indicated he didn't handle the interview real well. He has also been in discussions with NZR on his role going forrward, and this story of him perhaps going to England seems to be has manager, as Razor said on tv early in year he is pretty keen to stay with Crusaders as he missed AB job. Read the thread, we got posters blaming Robinson and co because Joseph went to Japan, Rennie went to Aus, and one thing everyone conveniently forgets is All Blacks is one of few jobs that have coaches lining up for interviews. Aussie just went and got Rennie and offered him the job (and you think Fozzie has been average so far) as did Japan with Joseph. Warren Gatland laughs as he has never applied for a coaching job, he says all his have been offered to him, including Wales and Lions etc. I not sure how many were in for Pommy job when Jones got it. And evryone assuming that Razor is in for Pom job, I don't reckon it even there as Jones hasn't and I don't think will be sacked! I don't even know if Fozzie should have job or not, but I sure as shit know from my days on boards where we appointed coaches etc, I think we had a hell of a more insight as to why coaches etc were appointed than the vast majority of critics that were pretty good at throwing shit at us with their little knowledge they got from sitting at home watching a few game..
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hey mate, I dont think england would appoint robertson. they have similar english managers who have similar experience and profile to roberston.
either they go down the super coach route again, stick with eddie (most likely) or get an up and coming English coach.
you are right about the interview process - it seems pretty antiquated to actually advertise the position. I believe that process just aids them getting the person they want i.e. a NZR employee Fozzie. as they know coaches need to line up their next gig a year or so before the contract actually starts.
anyway. I would like to see NZR seal this deal with silver Lake as the capital investment is definitely required. the only way that Silver lake make money out of the deal is by growing commercial revenues, which benefits NZR.
PE will be in every rugby market after the WR proposal failed. its just a fact of life. and NZ needs capital or NZ rugby will look very different in 5-10 years time and not for the better in my view.
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@dagrubster said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
hey mate, I dont think england would appoint robertson. they have similar english managers who have similar experience and profile to roberston.
either they go down the super coach route again, stick with eddie (most likely) or get an up and coming English coach.
you are right about the interview process - it seems pretty antiquated to actually advertise the position. I believe that process just aids them getting the person they want i.e. a NZR employee Fozzie. as they know coaches need to line up their next gig a year or so before the contract actually starts.
anyway. I would like to see NZR seal this deal with silver Lake as the capital investment is definitely required. the only way that Silver lake make money out of the deal is by growing commercial revenues, which benefits NZR.
PE will be in every rugby market after the WR proposal failed. its just a fact of life. and NZ needs capital or NZ rugby will look very different in 5-10 years time and not for the better in my view.
Amen to that mate. I know the NZPA have got alternate plans, which is better than the normal "I just against it", but I just think , like you, they can take AB brand to another level.
As for just appointing an AB coach without nominations or interview process , there would be a meltdown, I magine if Rennie got the job, and ABs struggled, or Razor geez there would be all the 'experts' condemning the NZR for that. As I said even at junior level you wouldn't believe the crap we received in a place like the Nua for who we appointes as coaches on the JAB, and when I on senior union it was even more. And as I said generally from people who did jad jack squat in the way of actually trying to run the game. It hasn't improved with rugby forums being on the net! -
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
It's a catch 22. NZ rugby (as opposed to NZ Rugby) needs the All Blacks to make money to fund the game, but the more money the All Blacks make the more money they want, thus there is less money to fund they game, thus the All Blacks have to make more money to fund the game, and thus they want more money ..
They don't want more money, they automatically get more money. The collective agreement gives a percentage of income to players. No ifs buts or maybes, so yes the more money the ABs make the more they get. But it is not a catch 22, as that percentage doesn't change.
They get a set proportion of income.
Capital investment is not income.
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@taniwharugby it’s all about the detail. Just a great believer in you get nothing for free. Sometimes everything ain’t that shiny.
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@dan54 said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@stargazer said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
I've the feeling that NZR is using media tactics to get everyone behind the Silver Lake deal.
It threatens provincial unions with huge bills if they don't agree with changing the format of the Mitre 10 Cup.
They use it in discussions about a women's SR competition.
Now, apparently, Robertson staying in NZ hinges on that deal. What have they told him?I smell dirty politics ....
What about alternatives to the Silverlake deal? Have they thought of any or is this the only horse they're betting on?If Razor ends up coaching the England, the main person to blame will be the muppet who appointed Foster to coach the ABs instead of him.
That would be Mark Robinson.
No the only person to blame if Razor decides to coach England is Razor himself! When a player goes overseas because he misses the ABs is exactly the same. If you want something badly enough you fight for it!
That analogy doesn't work. If a player misses the ABs in June they can fight their way back in by the end of the year.
Razor can't get the AB job for a set period. He can't fight to get it.
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@dagrubster The AB valuation is probably a little deflated at the moment due to Covid. Silver Lake will probably make capital gains just by buying in at the right time.
They will also be buying a right to a proportionate percentage of generated revenue. They dont just hand over 500m and get whatever they can make on top. They buy the right to a percentage of future earnings. Who knows how much, but it probably reflects the percentage of their stake.
So, nah. They can just buy in and sit on their hands and they will still make money.
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I’m not in favor of it, but I equally don’t trust NZRU to get it right alone. Their recent history suggests they need some adults in the room and SL may be able to provide a framework for some needed change to happen.
On the other hand, I just hate it. Like, really hate it. And it feels like a good chunk of NZ culture can be bought for about 460 million dollars, which is about the value of 460 houses in Auckland. That doesn’t sound like enough to me, even if I could stomach it.
I can’t help but feel that this is a really shrewd investment that will certainly pay off for SL if it happens.
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From the NRU CEO
You will have noted that there has been a lot of public commentary about the proposed SilverLake private equity purchase of a minority holding in NZ Rugby, whilst we believe there are many positives in this proposal there are some issues that NRU are seeking clarification on, in particular, our focus on and the commitment to our community game.
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@nepia said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@dan54 said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@sparky said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@stargazer said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
I've the feeling that NZR is using media tactics to get everyone behind the Silver Lake deal.
It threatens provincial unions with huge bills if they don't agree with changing the format of the Mitre 10 Cup.
They use it in discussions about a women's SR competition.
Now, apparently, Robertson staying in NZ hinges on that deal. What have they told him?I smell dirty politics ....
What about alternatives to the Silverlake deal? Have they thought of any or is this the only horse they're betting on?If Razor ends up coaching the England, the main person to blame will be the muppet who appointed Foster to coach the ABs instead of him.
That would be Mark Robinson.
No the only person to blame if Razor decides to coach England is Razor himself! When a player goes overseas because he misses the ABs is exactly the same. If you want something badly enough you fight for it!
That analogy doesn't work. If a player misses the ABs in June they can fight their way back in by the end of the year.
Razor can't get the AB job for a set period. He can't fight to get it.
Regardless mate, Razor a big boy, if he decides to go overseas, it still his decision, and to blame anyone else is just avoiding the issue that he either decide his future is in NZ or overseas. I not mking excuses or saying it right or wrong, but the bottom line is , only one person decides what Razor wants. That is Razor not Robinson or the actual board that recomended Foster etc. I sure even Razor will tell you that.
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
And I'm astonished that people think NZR (there is no NZRU anymore) haven't looked deeply into this, considered multitudinous alternatives, carried out extensive Due Diligence, weighed the alternatives and settled on selling a small 15% stake of commercial income for $465m of capital as being a good outcome.
All I can see is the players trying to get their hooks into the capital, rather than the increased revenue.I wouldn’t be so sure - it looks like a big number and am thinking they are just creaming themselves, as are the media. There is no rocket science here. Just marketing and a line of credit from a bank. All we have heard is that they will set up a company to market the ABs. Why do they need to sell 15% of the ABs forever to do this? Silver lake don’t have special powers - do it them selves or hire people to do it, which is what Silver lake plan to do. We know nothing about the deal and how it’s structured, where the risks lie. Devil is in the detail but Ownership is forever and I just don’t want someone else owning us.
What worries me most about this is that Silver Lake will be looking to sell the 15% on after five to ten years. If things work the valuation will be a lot higher. NZR won’t have the chips to buy SL out. So another Private Equity type, or successful foreign ‘entrepreneur’ or IPO. All smell of big trouble.
IMO NZR ought to be looking at less money up front in return for ten year deal, with renewal rights. If SL can create a much greater than base case revenue stream then they make a very good return on money. Perhaps with 25% share of revenue above threshold.
More money up front is highly likely to prove EXTREMELY COSTLY in the long term.
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Aaron Smith is on a board? I hope he's not the secretary.
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This depresses me so much, that I haven't read anything much about it, or considered the alternative if dont take PE.
I'm against it.
I curse foreign leagues and unions with government bailouts and their own PE deals making this race to shittery necessary.
I'm just slowly disengaging from the sport.
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@mofitzy_ said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@pakman
Sure, but Silverlake would have a vested interest in NZR succeeding, so it could be a mutually beneficial agreement.Not against Silver Lake, per se. Just better to structure more partnership style limited term venture and take less up front. If things work the money will take care of itself.
If not, priority to be able to ensure a clean break.
