Forwards for the All Blacks squad
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dan54" data-cid="568282" data-time="1459286244">
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<p>Showing your age Gollum, obvious haven't been watching rugby for long, or you would know Kirkie ran about 60 metres fending off at least 3-4 players, including one of the best fullbacks from the game, against probably the best rugby team to tour NZ 1971 Lions!!!! Kirkie just in case you didn't know was a loosie!!<br>
Hey I have no probs with Todd in ABs, but just thought I should mention that your argument was well and truly wrong.</p>
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<p>Nope, under the Mitchell and Gollum selectorial process Kirky wouldn't have been fit for test rugby. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bobily" data-cid="568287" data-time="1459286588">
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<p>Gibson is actually the top NZ openside in terms of turnovers, so another positive for him there.</p>
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<p>Except that he has a touch of the Pococks in his play. I watched just him for a bit in one Blues match and all he was doing was tracking the play looking to pounce. Do that 20 times and the 2 turnovers look good on the stats but meanwhile you are asking everyone else to do the tackling.</p>
<p>Cane however is doing the tackling then looking for the turnover. In the game against the Force I reckon that with a different ref he would have got quite a few but the ref was allowing the attacking team a lot of leeway in recycling the ball. He hardly blew a 'holding on' penalty all game despite plenty of times there was a jackler over the ball. He was consistent but it doesn't help the stats.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="568279" data-time="1459286006">
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<p>I'm unsure why he was picked in the first place, I remember one awesome bump off of an irish front rower some years back but looks like he's been going to the same bakery as Julian Savea lately. Is he a guy who benefitted from others getting injured/going overseas ?</p>
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<p>Seemed to me like he benefited mostly from being stuck right in the middle of an AB forwards pack at the Crusaders. Then he stepped up to international level and had a couple of moments but was never even close to BBBR or Whitelock. Similar thing happened with Bird, though he finally started to look like he was delivering on his potential last year, starting with the Maori vs Baabaas game, after Toddy sat him in the stands for pretty much the entire SR season.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="568319" data-time="1459290719">
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<p>Seemed to me like he benefited mostly from being stuck right in the middle of an AB forwards pack at the Crusaders. Then he stepped up to international level and had a couple of moments but was never even close to BBBR or Whitelock. Similar thing happened with Bird, though he finally started to look like he was delivering on his potential last year, starting with the Maori vs Baabaas game, after Toddy sat him in the stands for pretty much the entire SR season.</p>
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<p>So he's nothing but another Sam Broomhall or Whitelock who's not Sam then ?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568316" data-time="1459290082">
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<p>Except that he has a touch of the Pococks in his play. I watched just him for a bit in one Blues match and all he was doing was tracking the play looking to pounce. Do that 20 times and the 2 turnovers look good on the stats but meanwhile you are asking <strong>everyone else to do the tackling.</strong></p>
<p>Cane however is doing the tackling then looking for the turnover. In the game against the Force I reckon that with a different ref he would have got quite a few but the ref was allowing the attacking team a lot of leeway in recycling the ball. He hardly blew a 'holding on' penalty all game despite plenty of times there was a jackler over the ball. He was consistent but it doesn't help the stats.</p>
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<p>Umm, but Gibson is leading the Blues in tackles by a large margin, and is third overall in tackles in the competition(and he's played less minutes than the 2 players in front of him).</p> -
<p>Romano was pretty good when he first came into the ABs. He cleared bodies and carted the ball up - not as well as Whitelock and BBBR but a decent 3rd lock. Then he started doing that silly pass at the line (no doubt team tactics), got injured, and came back looking a bit average. .</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dice" data-cid="568322" data-time="1459290850"><p>
Umm, but Gibson is leading the Blues in tackles by a large margin, and is third overall in tackles in the competition(and he's played less minutes than the 2 players in front of him).</p></blockquote>
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Take your stats and go home. He had me convinced until you came along. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="568323" data-time="1459291011">
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<p>Romano was pretty good when he first came into the ABs. He cleared bodies and carted the ball up - not as well as Whitelock and BBBR but a decent 3rd lock. Then he started doing that silly pass at the line (no doubt team tactics), got injured, and came back looking a bit average. .</p>
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<p>He's also played bloody well the last 2 games for the crusaders. Some excellent hits on defense</p>
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<p>Carried injuries throughout last year and is apparently over them now.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dice" data-cid="568322" data-time="1459290850">
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<p>Umm, but Gibson is leading the Blues in tackles by a large margin, and is third overall in tackles in the competition(and he's played less minutes than the 2 players in front of him).</p>
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<p>Fair call then. I don't think stats are worth much and was going by the short period I watched him. </p>
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<p>So the question really is whether he is getting those turnovers after tackling first or is alternating between one task or the other.</p>
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<p>As Wayne Smith says it is the effectiveness of what is being done rather than the stat itself.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568333" data-time="1459292494">
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<p>Fair call then. I don't think stats are worth much and was going by the short period I watched him. </p>
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<p>So the question really is whether he is getting those turnovers after tackling first or is alternating between one task or the other.</p>
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<p>As Wayne Smith says it is the effectiveness of what is being done rather than the stat itself.</p>
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<p>The only game I've watched Gibson closely is when the Blues played the Saders down here. He was a tackling machine that day, really impressed me.</p>
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<p>Especially as the rest of the blues pack (including Kaino) didnt show up to play</p> -
<p>for what it's worth (and this will probably result in you immediately dismissing him as the worst player in super rugby) but Bob Dwyer loves him some Matt Todd. He reckons that Todd's the best exponent in NZ rugby of the link role and allowing continuous rugby. High work rate, good smarts, in the right place all the time, and the skills to keep the ball moving. </p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="568342" data-time="1459293039">
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<p>Romano's biggest problem is that he runs far too upright into contact. The end result is that he usually goes backwards in the tackle despite his reputation. I haven't seen him play this season so I hope he has fixed this weakness.</p>
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<p>That was Broadhurst's problem as well. Get away with it at Super level but against a fired up International team you'll get sat on your ass.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568333" data-time="1459292494">
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<p>Fair call then. I don't think stats are worth much and was going by the short period I watched him. </p>
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<p>So the question really is whether he is getting those turnovers after tackling first or is alternating between one task or the other.</p>
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<p>As Wayne Smith says it is the effectiveness of what is being done rather than the stat itself.</p>
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<p>I think stats are worth a fair bit, but not on their own. You can form an opinion on a players worth based solely on watching a player, but humans aren't always good at being objective. Certain cognitive biases can come into play and affect what information is processed and how it is processed. Statistics are objective, but don't tell the complete picture either, as not every outcome can be converted to a single number that accurately portrays how well a player performed a skill. However, if both of these measures of performance are considered, they can somewhat account for the limitations of the other kind of data.</p>
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<p>Same sort of idea as solving a crime. You generally use information from a bunch of different sources, rather than one. Excluding a particular type of information that may be helpful probably isn't the best idea.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568344" data-time="1459293317">
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<p>I recall that every time someone questioned the selection of Romano, the red and black fans would counter with ...'he's there for his ball running ability'</p>
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<p>I could never work out how he got that reputation.</p>
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<p>From memory, he did very well hitting the ball up in his first game against Ireland. I think most people assumed that would carry on, but it never seemed to.</p> -
<p>FWIW I have been impressed by Romano's form this season. Over the past two games he's impressed against big and physical South African packs. Like others, I'm not that impressed with his running ability (he's certainly no Isaac Ross in that respect) but I do like his defensive work rate and his eagerness to use his big frame to clear bodies at the breakdown.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="568342" data-time="1459293039">
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<p>Romano's biggest problem is that he runs far too upright into contact. The end result is that he usually goes backwards in the tackle despite his reputation. I haven't seen him play this season so I hope he has fixed this weakness.</p>
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<p>Reputations are very hard to counter in NZ Rugby. Once Lee Stensness got labelled as a poor defender she was all over red rover in terms of international rugby for him.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568344" data-time="1459293317">
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<p>I recall that every time someone questioned the selection of Romano, the red and black fans would counter with ...'he's there for his ball running ability'</p>
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<p>I could never work out how he got that reputation.</p>
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<p>That sounds like a myth</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="568319" data-time="1459290719">
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<p>Seemed to me like he benefited mostly from being stuck right in the middle of an AB forwards pack at the Crusaders. Then he stepped up to international level and had a couple of moments but was never even close to BBBR or Whitelock. Similar thing happened with Bird, though he finally started to look like he was delivering on his potential last year, starting with the Maori vs Baabaas game, after Toddy sat him in the stands for pretty much the entire SR season.</p>
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<p>Dominic Bird was one of Hansen's poorer selections. Saw his physical stats and elevated him prematurely. Was fairly poor in his couple of outings in black. I am hoping Rennie can work some magic.</p>
