Forwards for the All Blacks squad

Immenso Rapido

Sold on Codie Taylor after nailing the throw for the McCaw try in SA last year. Looks the real deal.

bobily

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="568113" data-time="1459230058">
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Ahh the old workrate debate :) 
Smashing opposition scrums counts doesn't it? 
But yeah, the blues props and richitelli have way better workrate
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I don't know what is happening in the scrums (I'm a scrawny winger), so it isn't my place to comment. I do enjoy statistics, though, so where I can I bring those into the conversation. Best case scenario is I see someone with a high workrate, and they are also rated for their setpiece ability (which no statistics have really been developed (and publicly released) to accurately judge performance through.
 
Though I would suggest that it is hard to tell whether Taylor is a good scrummager, or whether that is down to being between Moody and Franks with some pretty good locks behind them.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="568148" data-time="1459236866">
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Don't underestimate Todd.
 
He's an excellent player and in other eras we would have been very happy to have him as an All Black stalwart. He's just turned 28 this week, so arguably could still be in his prime at the end of this next four year cycle. 
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Or alternatively don't overestimate Todd, he seems to be more of the Marty Holah than a genuine long term pick.
 
I actually think his age counts against him at this stage, he's 28 and he's behind a guy who's 24 with a 22 year old for competition.
 
I'm struggling to think of what era he would have been an AB stalwart though, I don't want to rain on your parade too much but our eras kind of went like this - McCaw, Kronfeld, MJ, Hobbs, Mourie with the odd guy in between. An odd guy in between seems about right, either a Holah, Robertson or Ginge Henderson type player.

cgrant

Concerning the Codie Taylor vs Nathan harris debate, as a neutral, I think Harris will struggle to earn a place in the AB squad. He is currently Nr.3 at the Chiefs behind Elliott and Marshall.

bobily

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="cgrant" data-cid="568183" data-time="1459245529">
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Concerning the Codie Taylor vs Nathan harris debate, as a neutral, I think Harris will struggle to earn a place in the AB squad. He is currently Nr.3 at the Chiefs behind Elliott and Marshall.
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He has been out with concussion for a week or two, which hasn't helped his chances.

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="568180" data-time="1459244166">Or alternatively don't overestimate Todd, he seems to be more of the Marty Holah than a genuine long term pick. 
 
I actually think his age counts against him at this stage, he's 28 and he's behind a guy who's 24 with a 22 year old for competition. 
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Todd looks like the 4th choice Openside to me now, behind Cane, Ardie Savea and Gibson, all of whom will still be around come the Lions series, the Japan World Cup and the World Cup after that.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="568180" data-time="1459244166">
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Or alternatively don't overestimate Todd, he seems to be more of the Marty Holah than a genuine long term pick.
 
I actually think his age counts against him at this stage, he's 28 and he's behind a guy who's 24 with a 22 year old for competition.
 
I'm struggling to think of what era he would have been an AB stalwart though, I don't want to rain on your parade too much but our eras kind of went like this - McCaw, Kronfeld, MJ, Hobbs, Mourie with the odd guy in between. An odd guy in between seems about right, either a Holah, Robertson or Ginge Henderson type player. 
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I like to think he'd have got 5 games & a world cup ahead of Carter. But then again Henderson didn't & as you note they are very similar, so maybe not.
 
The thing Todd has in his favour is he plays like a test 7. As does Cane. The others don't look test 7's, they look amazing Super 7's & possible test impact bench players.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="tubbyj" data-cid="567932" data-time="1459192336">
I like the look of Ardie Savea. Every Hurricanes game I have watched he has had something special about him. Could be the player we need to quieten down this Pocock is now the greatest stuff from over the other side of the Ta$man.</blockquote>
 
Ardie brings something different but I'm a Cane fan. If he was an Aussie the Fox comms and Aus media cheerleaders would be losing their shit over him moreso I think than they do about Pocock. 
It's like Cooper and Cruden. Cruds was producing performances far better than what Cooper was delivering but the great quote from Marto pre the 2011 SF was "we don't rate Cruden in Straya". 
Perspective gets bent out of shape by hope sometimes.

cgrant

Gibson
Positives : Can burst through tackles, good support play, strong tackling, young age.
Negatives : Can suddenly disappear completely from the game = questionable workrate.
 
Savea
Positives : He is the best of the openside flankers with ball in hand (speed + explosiveness). Great at the breakdown. Excellent workrate.
Negatives : Weak inside shoulder, ridiculous haircut.
 
Todd :
Positives : Outstanding support play, great workrate, good speed.
Negatives : Doubts about his physicality at international level. Too old ?

gollum

Todd :
Positives : Outstanding support play, great workrate, good speed.
Negatives : Never runs 60 metres breaking 6 terrible tackles fending off 3 guys & bumping off a terrible fullback in a way that he will never do ever nor has any AB loose forward ever because test match rugby doesn't have that level of shithouse D that we see in Super rugby but every year we try to select guys who do that but can't actually do what we need from a test player.
 
Fixed.

broughie

Todd's appearances in Black have not been unremarkable. Some players are good provincial and super rugby players but don't have the X factor to play international. Todd has benefited from playing in a great Canterbury forward pack that understands the concept of team unlike our Auckland brothers. This makes him looks good being in a dominant pack.
 
Heck if Sam Cane is our 7 why not throw out the whole concept of a fetcher 7 and put in a greyhound like Dixon or Fafita around the 65 min mark. Kind of like Barrett being brought on when everyone is stuffed.

Billy Tell

Really don't think Romano will be picked. Underwhelming ever since his injury. They'll go with retsllick Whitelock tuipulotu and someone else but not Romano. He can't even crack the crusaders starting lineup for the big games ahead of Barrett or tupou.

cgrant

Joe Wheeler has been the NZ form lock of the competition so far. What he lacks is power but he is very strong in terms of technique.

sparky

Matt Todd is the Reuben Thorne of Open Sides........

Bovidae

The bench really need to be impact players nowadays, which is why I think Savea would be great in that role. He would offer something different to Cane, or any other NZ no.7, against tired opposition. Todd would be a better option to start if Cane was unavailable.
 
It might be a moot point because I don't think they'll carry a specialist openside on the bench unless Hansen finds his lock/6.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="568146" data-time="1459236660">
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On that subject, the Canes SA tour starts in Round 10, so Ardie's going to fly all the way over to SA for one game and then fly home, I guess? Seems pretty dumb, he'd be better off leaving the Canes after Round 9.
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The last two sevens rounds are in the UK. Expect he would fly to SA with Canes then on to London to join up.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="cgrant" data-cid="568183" data-time="1459245529">
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Concerning the Codie Taylor vs Nathan harris debate, as a neutral, I think Harris will struggle to earn a place in the AB squad. He is currently Nr.3 at the Chiefs behind Elliott and Marshall.
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As mentioned, he is out with concussion at the moment but I suspect he may need to share time with Hika. The Chiefs scrum has improved markedly with Hika back (with or without the Jap prop)

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="568225" data-time="1459276165">
The bench really need to be impact players nowadays, which is why I think Savea would be great in that role. He would offer something different to Cane, or any other NZ no.7, against tired opposition. Todd would be a better option to start if Cane was unavailable. 
It might be a moot point because I don't think they'll carry a specialist openside on the bench unless Hansen finds his lock/6.</blockquote>
 
I agree , in the recent World Cup out bench was stacked with impact types and it was a major weapon and played its part in winning it . 
Savea and Ioane are the types to fill that role in the future , I can't see honest grafters like Todd filling that role if not selected as a starter .

Crucial

So, if talking about lock/6's, if they really do want to find one without weakining the side who should they be looking at?
 
Luatua?
Seu?
Thomson?
 
the pool isn't very deep.
 
So if you don't have a lock six the option is either to run with a makeshift (eg Kaino) and still have two loosies on the bench (agree that Ioane and Savea post 7s would be great impact) or put a lock on the bench and have at least one versatile loosie in a mix of four.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bobily" data-cid="568179" data-time="1459244130">
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I don't know what is happening in the scrums (I'm a scrawny winger), so it isn't my place to comment. I do enjoy statistics, though, so where I can I bring those into the conversation. Best case scenario is I see someone with a high workrate, and they are also rated for their setpiece ability (which no statistics have really been developed (and publicly released) to accurately judge performance through.
 
Though I would suggest that it is hard to tell whether Taylor is a good scrummager, or whether that is down to being between Moody and Franks with some pretty good locks behind them.
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</blockquote>
 
 
It's not just the props that make a strong scrum, Hooker plays a huge part as do the locks.
 
Also, I hope you're not basing your workrate comment off the NZ Herald stats? Do they even show stats for how many rucks hit? Workrate is more than looking flashy with ball in hand

Milk

I think Patrick Tuipulotu and Savea on the bench would be fine. Between them all of Kaino, Cane, Read and Savea are pretty versatile. I'd think Savea might even do a better job at 8 than Pocock.

The Silver Fern

Forwards for the All Blacks squad