ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?
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@Machpants said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
I think what the lack of actual success and limited time for many palyers means is an even better SRA. The number of players that are playing for an AB slot is high, hopefully this will see a standards lift even better than this years.
Yeah. I certainly think that the last game showed that we really need a prop that consistently plays like Laulala did. He hasn't done that enough. Makes a huge difference to getting on the front foot. That is one target that I am hoping someone will step up into.
I also hope that Aumua progresses. Coles is on the slide and Taylor seems to be a shadow of himself.
We could do with another halfback stepping up too.
What we really miss though is a huge multi skilled ugly lock. Anybody know of one? -
I think every few new guys got a decent crack and when the did they didn't get to build on it.
PUJ looked good...hardly seen again
AI looked good, only got one other gamemust be hard for these guys to know what they have to do to get a start...playing well isn't enough apparently
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@Kiwiwomble said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
I think every few new guys got a decent crack and when the did they didn't get to build on it.
PUJ looked good...hardly seen again
AI looked good, only got one other gamemust be hard for these guys to know what they have to do to get a start...playing well isn't enough apparently
PUJ got concussed, and was a fill in anyway
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@Kiwiwomble thing is, there has always been a history of 'loyalty' to the current squad.
Tough to get into, but tougher to get out it seems.
ANd an injury replacement doesnt mean that new guy has an 'in'
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I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.
Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
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@KiwiMurph said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
Another one is Tupou Vaai - he got game time but there's an argument he should have got more and come on earlier in his bench appearances.
When is that giant from the highlanders back from injury ? Surely he'll get a hoon ?
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I think this is one of the worst failures of the coaches this year. The initial team selection was filled with out of position and out of form players and explained away as an “experienced” selection to lock up the Bledisloe.
That only changed through injuries.After the Bledisloe was locked up they fucked up by making wholesale changes. Then panicked and reverted to the “top” team full of flawed selections after the loss to the Wallabies. Then the worst case scenario happened and we lost to the Argies.
What this all meant was that we didn’t get to see some of these newer guys come in and play along side the top players. It was either in a team with wholesale changes or getting 2 min off the bench.
Clarke should have been at 11 ahead of Bridge from the start.
Frizzel should have been rotated out after the first two games to try one of the other options at 6.
Jordan should have started early on.
Papalii and Grace should have been given more than a handful of minutes.Unfortunately it means we are now a full season into the RWC cycle and some of the lessons that should have been had and some of the experience that should have been built, wasn’t.
So, some big questions remain. Some have been partially answered but lots of the answers were “no this doesn’t work” with no clues about what does.
Who is the best 6? Probably not Frizzel. Akira went well but we only got to see a short sample. Grace didn’t get a real shot. What is Papalii’s role?
What is the most balanced back row? Akira and Sotutu both looked good, so did Cane and Ardie. But how do they all fit together? We didn’t try many options that didn’t have Cane and Ardie at 7 and 8.
Are our back up 9’s up to it?
Is Laumape up to it?
Is Aumua up to it?
Is RIoane really best used in midfield or should he still be a winger?
Does RM+BB actually work or should we pick one of them at 10 and a real 15 at 15 eg. Jordie?
Is it a good idea to play Jordie at 14 ? (The answer to this should be obvious) or are there better options?
Is Pat T up to starting or is he only a bench option?
Are JG and ALB being used the right way around?
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@MN5 said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@KiwiMurph said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
Another one is Tupou Vaai - he got game time but there's an argument he should have got more and come on earlier in his bench appearances.
When is that giant from the highlanders back from injury ? Surely he'll get a hoon ?
He should be back for Super Rugby. He is certainly on the radar.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.
Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
Just on that first paragraph (I can’t work out how to bold it from my phone)
If you look at the team for the first game of the season im not sure you could seriously argue that all those players were established as the best players in their positions.
In the backs it was only A Smith who was clearly the first choice in the position he was picked in.The fact is you need to rotate players to build experience and depth. Year one of a RWC cycle is probably the most important time to do that. Especially in a shortened calendar against an inexperienced wallabies and Argies who are ranked 10th and haven’t played for a year.
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@Crucial said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
They just appeared too conservative to me. The new guys that did get a chance did prove their worth (Clarke, Jordan, AIoane). Just makes you wonder if others would have also done well
Those two still fall into the category of didn't get a fair crack. In fact they probably top the chart even ahead of Papali'i.
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@KiwiMurph said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@MN5 said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@KiwiMurph said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
Another one is Tupou Vaai - he got game time but there's an argument he should have got more and come on earlier in his bench appearances.
When is that giant from the highlanders back from injury ? Surely he'll get a hoon ?
He should be back for Super Rugby. He is certainly on the radar.
Also, based on what I've read, BBBR is available for AB selection from May 2021.
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@pukunui said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.
Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
Just on that first paragraph (I can’t work out how to bold it from my phone)
If you look at the team for the first game of the season im not sure you could seriously argue that all those players were established as the best players in their positions.
In the backs it was only A Smith who was clearly the first choice in the position he was picked in.That's not what I'm arguing though.
I'd say if you're Brodie Retallick and you spend the first five games sitting on the sidelines, then you can probably say you didn't get a fair crack. But, if you're Cullen Grace then that's just how it goes - you have to bide your time and when you get your chance, take it.
I don't think there's anyone who can say they've been too hard done by - there are some guys who've grasped their chance when they've been given it.
Perhaps the only guy who's got a real case for not getting a fair crack - if he wanted to make it - is Beaudy. "I'm a two-time fucking World Player of the Year and I'M the one getting shuffled". But, quite possibly he's quite happy playing fullback - that I don't know.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
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@Kiwiwomble said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
have the last name Barrett
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@Kiwiwomble said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
I think you have to bide your time and take your chance when you get it.
To be honest, I didn't find any of Fozzie's selections illogical - even if I disagreed with some of them.
Giving Jordie yet another run on the wing at the weekend was starting to get close to it, but even then I can understand the logic, because they'd backed themselves into a corner - Sevu was pretty ordinary in his start and Will Jordan had barely played in two months.
I probably would have played Rieko on the right wing, but he's made a couple of howlers this season, as well.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
To be honest, I didn't find any of Fozzie's selections illogical - even if I disagreed with some of them.
I think not picking Akira against Argentina in Parramatta was illogical after the impact he had in Brisbane. When you consider how little impact Frizell had shown in the Tests he played in, Akira's non selection becomes even more confusing.
