Exodus
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@akan004 yeah like he wouldn't have had truckloads of shit thrown at him for foisting Foster on us midway through the RWC cycle.
Nah that was the plan which we all thought was sensible. Bed in post 2015 goat etc exodus, do the lions, then leave. Perfect sense, only 2016 was undefeated year and so they signed him for two extra years, sadly when we got to 2017 it was obviously a year too far
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"Legendary", Really?
what else would he have to do? Assistant during 8 dominant years leading up to a RWC, head coach for a RWC cycle that we dominated and (in hindsight) purred to victory on the back of a clutch of amazing players, and then 4 years which were bumpy where we just didn't get up at the end.
16 years with the ABs, 2RWC, Bledisloe Cups, RC and Tri Nations, Grand Slams ... yuo're a tough marker!
Just to elaborate - your own post says it all.
"Assistant",
"On the back of amazing players"Yes he was a part of a great team.
so, do you think there were any 'legendary' AB coaches? Interested - if Shag doesn't make the cut, who does?
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If you look at their full body of work there is no way you can rank Henry ahead of Hansen.
Henry 85% (1st and QF loss at RWCs)
Hansen 87% (1st and 3rd at RWCs)As said, Fred Allen never lost a test match but didn't play SA in that streak.
Hard to rank a number one, but those three are on the short list. A bit disrespectful to ignore Hansen's achievements and a bit forgetful. His work to rebuild between 2011 and 2015 was brilliant
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If you look at their full body of work there is no way you can rank Henry ahead of Hansen.
Henry 85% (1st and QF loss at RWCs)
Hansen 87% (1st and 3rd at RWCs)As said, Fred Allen never lost a test match but didn't play SA in that streak.
Hard to rank a number one, but those three are on the short list. A bit disrespectful to ignore Hansen's achievements and a bit forgetful. His work to rebuild between 2011 and 2015 was brilliant
Yes, unfortunately his legacy is tainted by subsequent failures (some of which could have been prevented I think). The job is easier when this is your team list:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-for-rwc-2015-announced/Some of our greatest ever players in there, and the wheels fell off a bit when he didn't have them. To be expected, to an extent, but the mistakes made in Chicago were due to poor selections and coaching and still grate. Cardiff for me was a very different scenario with Henry.
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Nah, they both won one and didn't win one. Plus, we're not the NH who measure everything in rugby by the RWC.
That's why I also included their winning % in tests.
There isn't much in it, but Henry had the advantage of having some of our all-time greats during his entire tenure while Hansen didn't during the final 4 years. Having the cattle helps.
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If you look at their full body of work there is no way you can rank Henry ahead of Hansen.
Henry 85% (1st and QF loss at RWCs)
Hansen 87% (1st and 3rd at RWCs)As said, Fred Allen never lost a test match but didn't play SA in that streak.
Hard to rank a number one, but those three are on the short list. A bit disrespectful to ignore Hansen's achievements and a bit forgetful. His work to rebuild between 2011 and 2015 was brilliant
Yes, unfortunately his legacy is tainted by subsequent failures (some of which could have been prevented I think). The job is easier when this is your team list:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/all-blacks-squad-for-rwc-2015-announced/Some of our greatest ever players in there, and the wheels fell off a bit when he didn't have them. To be expected, to an extent, but the mistakes made in Chicago were due to poor selections and coaching and still grate. Cardiff for me was a very different scenario with Henry.
They said the same thing about Phil Jackson. He did have the core of a great team, that is without doubt. But we have had excellent teams in the past and failed to be as successful let alone win Bill (remember 4 more years?)
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@akan004 yeah like he wouldn't have had truckloads of shit thrown at him for foisting Foster on us midway through the RWC cycle.
"YOU ARE A FILTHY QUITTER YOU FAT JUDAS FUCK!!
How on earth did you get hold of Dad's texts to me about resigning from my last job?
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@akan004 yeah like he wouldn't have had truckloads of shit thrown at him for foisting Foster on us midway through the RWC cycle.
"YOU ARE A FILTHY QUITTER YOU FAT JUDAS FUCK!!
How on earth did you get hold of Dad's texts to me about resigning from my last job?
we talk all the time about just how disappointed we are in you.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@akan004 yeah like he wouldn't have had truckloads of shit thrown at him for foisting Foster on us midway through the RWC cycle.
"YOU ARE A FILTHY QUITTER YOU FAT JUDAS FUCK!!
How on earth did you get hold of Dad's texts to me about resigning from my last job?
we talk all the time about just how disappointed we are in you.
That's the only thing that kept my parents together. When they got bored of that, they divorced.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@mariner4life said in Exodus:
@akan004 yeah like he wouldn't have had truckloads of shit thrown at him for foisting Foster on us midway through the RWC cycle.
"YOU ARE A FILTHY QUITTER YOU FAT JUDAS FUCK!!
How on earth did you get hold of Dad's texts to me about resigning from my last job?
we talk all the time about just how disappointed we are in you.
That's the only thing that kept my parents together. When they got bored of that, they divorced.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry
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Nah, they both won one and didn't win one. Plus, we're not the NH who measure everything in rugby by the RWC.
That's why I also included their winning % in tests.
There isn't much in it, but Henry had the advantage of having some of our all-time greats during his entire tenure while Hansen didn't during the final 4 years. Having the cattle helps.
I think though Henry had to build a team from a very low base (on field and of field) whereas Hanson’s inherited that cattle and mostly kept it going. I think Hanson had the advantage, with noir much in it
