'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Bones i took it to mean that in general all these only have a small percent that ever have a chance where i think a of of successful leagues rotate more regularly
maybe @derpus cold clarify
The EPL is different too because it has over 100 years of support, generations of familys following one club through thick and thin...we're talking about a new comp with manufactured teams...harder to get people invested
I assume your the same @derpus from TRF?
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@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I forgot my final point, being that no succesful comp in the world is perfectly balanced. To the contrary - the most valuable and succesful leagues are all pretty one sided with only a small percentage of the competing teams a realistic chance of winning the title. EPl, NFL, NRL, AFl, Bundesliga, NBL - they all have plenty of whipping boys.
i mean...thats not completely true, bth the NRL and AFL have had 7 different permiers in the last decade and the NFL have had nine....hardly a monopolies
I don't think he said monopolies did he? My reading of it makes perfect sense. There's always whipping boys, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same team every year.
Then what was the point of him even posting that? Because every comp in every year will have its share of whipping boys. It's a non point.
I think I'm the best person to ask that, good on you.
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@Kiwiwomble imagine the moaning on forums 100 years ago about how shit Millwall were though.
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@Bones football isn't good comparison anyway, with promotion and relegation teams have a lot more to play for, so even if your not wining you celebrate surviving the drop and even if you drop you'll probably have a season winning more in the league below
I support Wimbledon, i know about going through the leagues!
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@Kiwiwomble Ya.
I guess my point is basically just that you don't need every team in the comp to be capable of winning it for it to be a succesful comp. We will usually have at least one team capable of competing for the title and that should be enough.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't know about the NZ teams but the Tahs and Reds at least are 100 years old? and you have to start building somewhere, dont you.
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I forgot my final point, being that no succesful comp in the world is perfectly balanced. To the contrary - the most valuable and succesful leagues are all pretty one sided with only a small percentage of the competing teams a realistic chance of winning the title. EPl, NFL, NRL, AFl, Bundesliga, NBL - they all have plenty of whipping boys.
i mean...thats not completely true, bth the NRL and AFL have had 7 different permiers in the last decade and the NFL have had nine....hardly a monopolies
I don't think he said monopolies did he? My reading of it makes perfect sense. There's always whipping boys, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same team every year.
Then what was the point of him even posting that? Because every comp in every year will have its share of whipping boys. It's a non point.
I think I'm the best person to ask that, good on you.
Well, you rode in with your shield up and lance out so you got the question directed at you.
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@Derpus i honestly think thats why people are suggesting 2-3 aussie teams...those have the best support
even with that history its still not the same as essentially the same comp for over 100 years, super rugby can only claim 25 years and thats subjective with the number of changes
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@Kiwiwomble Yeah but then you are limiting your audience and any potential growth. It was tremendously damaging to the game in Australia to cut the Force. They were the fastest growing area of rugby in terms of viewership and grassroots and boast the only billionaire benefactor around in the Southern Hemisphere. Sure they hadnt achieved anything particularly amazing yet but, as you say, these things take decades not years.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble Yeah but then you are limiting your audience and any potential growth. It was tremendously damaging to the game in Australia to cut the Force. They were the fastest growing area of rugby in terms of viewership and grassroots and boast the only billionaire benefactor around in the Southern Hemisphere. Sure they hadnt achieved anything particularly amazing yet but, as you say, these things take decades not years.
i agree re the force, im in Melbourne and couldn't believe the rebels got the nod....rugbys non existent here
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble Yeah but then you are limiting your audience and any potential growth. It was tremendously damaging to the game in Australia to cut the Force. They were the fastest growing area of rugby in terms of viewership and grassroots and boast the only billionaire benefactor around in the Southern Hemisphere. Sure they hadnt achieved anything particularly amazing yet but, as you say, these things take decades not years.
i agree re the force, im in Melbourne and couldn't believe the rebels got the nod....rugbys non existent here
It was all related to legally how easy it was to cut ties with either franchise. That's why Rebels were chosen cos there were clauses that RA could enact that could allow them to cut ties with the Force whereas Rebels were legally on much stronger ground.
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@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I forgot my final point, being that no succesful comp in the world is perfectly balanced. To the contrary - the most valuable and succesful leagues are all pretty one sided with only a small percentage of the competing teams a realistic chance of winning the title. EPl, NFL, NRL, AFl, Bundesliga, NBL - they all have plenty of whipping boys.
i mean...thats not completely true, bth the NRL and AFL have had 7 different permiers in the last decade and the NFL have had nine....hardly a monopolies
I don't think he said monopolies did he? My reading of it makes perfect sense. There's always whipping boys, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same team every year.
Then what was the point of him even posting that? Because every comp in every year will have its share of whipping boys. It's a non point.
I think I'm the best person to ask that, good on you.
Well, you rode in with your shield up and lance out so you got the question directed at you.
Christ I thought you were better than that mate. Yeah I was riding in with a shield and Lance by mildly saying it made sense to me. Good one.
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fuck the Force. They were consistently shit, made lots of bad decisions. And WA is basically another country.
I would be very happy with a 9 team trans-tasman comp. 5 NZ 4 Aus, home and away, finals.
Perth just makes everything harder.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@NTA This makes perfect sense from a Kiwi perspective but little to none from an Australian perspective.
Many Australian fans at this stage want to ditch SR altogether and start from scratch (verging on a majority). So any proposed TT comp
I was more saying "IF a TT comp was to exist, then no more than 3 Aussie sides playing in it, with corresponding changes to supporting structures". Not that it should, necessarily.
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Finally, Twiggy has regularly expressed an interest in pumping considerable investment
Twiggy didn't start even thinking about pumping considerable investment into anything until it was clear the Force were out on their arse. If he's such a good rugby man, where the fuck was he when the Force were struggling for a decade?
Fucking. Nowhere.
It is a win-win for him - buy a broken machine, put some new paint on it, and suddenly you're a hero with a purported $50M to spend on rugby.
It is great that he wants to help out now, but let's Beware of Greeks bearing gifts. Particularly with Twiggy's history. He'll pump anything that garners him a fuckton of government money and not much else.
I'll believe this other private equity investment when it lands.
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@NTA That's pretty much the exclusive business model of private equity firms. Buy something that's in the dumps on the cheap, take over management and pump capital into it to turn a profit (where there is opportunity, obviously).
Yeah Twiggy only became involved when he had to - but he's followed through whenever he said he would.
Don't get me wrong. My overwhelmingly preferred option is a TT comp. But if it's anything less than a 10 team even split it becomes such a bad outcome for Aussie rugby that it's almost preferable to gamble on something new.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble Ya.
I guess my point is basically just that you don't need every team in the comp to be capable of winning it for it to be a succesful comp. We will usually have at least one team capable of competing for the title and that should be enough.
Fans want good quality and you're correct in saying not every team needs to be a shot for the title, but it doesn't help when teams consistently under perform. When that happens the question is what can be done to address it? NSW has only won one SR title and that with the benefit of a dodgy decision at the death. Quite frankly I'm surprised people still attend. At least in Canberra the Brumbies won more often than not, but even then the crowds have disappeared. I mean quite apart from the stadia issues, who wants to freeze watching penalty, kick for lineout, maul as a game plan? Apparently not even public servants.
I'd be thrilled if SR TT had five teams each and from one season to the next it was impossible to guess who'd be in the semi-finals. Australian fans I speak to just don't want to see Australian teams consistently losing to NZ ones.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Australian fans I speak to just don't want to see Australian teams consistently losing to NZ ones.
that's a TT comp done then
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@NTA said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Twiggy didn't start even thinking about pumping considerable investment into anything until it was clear the Force were out on their arse. If he's such a good rugby man, where the fuck was he when the Force were struggling for a decade?
Fucking. Nowhere.
It is a win-win for him - buy a broken machine, put some new paint on it, and suddenly you're a hero with a purported $50M to spend on rugby.Helping before hand wouldn't give him the press he so richly deserves. Just ask him.
