How are cyclists cheating now?

SammyC

Well in the case of cycling being a member of the tin foil hat brigade is more than acceptable. We've had the wool pulled over our eyes plenty of times in the past
 
Rather than saying "got one", people are now saying..... I wonder how many more haven't been caught, and how long has this been happening?
I guess the default response is to assume the answers to those questions are 
a) many, especially the winners, 
b) a decade, at least
 
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Then people start coming forward saying they've been supplying pro-riders with motors since 1998 & others that they've sold 1200 of them.
 
If sport had earned your trust, you'd side with them in a disagreement, because motors should be (in theory) easy to detect so you'd think that they would have found engines by now. But no,all sport has curated cynicism, so we now have another thing to add to doping
 
For example, would grand tour podium finishers would be exposed by authorities if they had an engine, given what we know?
Instead, an U/23 rider can get nailed, the sport's leader can come down hard on what he calls a "minority" and off we go, a sport that you already had to watch with cognitive dissonance to enjoy just got a whole lot more suspicious (if that was even possible!)
 
My point is, people rightly can't trust the sport. 
So the last thing you should be doing is dismissing questions, whistleblowers and critics. 
 
Remember when motors were dismissed as a fantasy? Yeah, well, welcome to Narnia
 
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SammyC

Also, watching the grand tour riders of today, they often switch bikes so many times during a mountain stage... are they getting freshly recharged bikes?
 
Contador was constantly changing bikes at this years Giro, and Cipollini called him out for potetially having a motor

SammyC

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/'>http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/</a>
 
the secret pro is blog I highly recommend. Written by a member of the pro peloton, not afraid to tell it like it is.
 
He is not as convinced as Willie the Waiter about Cancellara

Cookie

Nice blog SammyC, thanks for the link

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559140" data-time="1455677204">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/'>http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/</a>
 
the secret pro is blog I highly recommend. Written by a member of the pro peloton
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Allegedly.
 
Of course the one thing people seem to be forgetting is electronic engines have a noise signature. Without sound deadening the whine would be noticeable.

SammyC

Of course it's allegedly 
Have you watched the numerous videos on you tube? They are completely silent

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559445" data-time="1455839391">
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Of course it's allegedly 
Have you watched the numerous videos on you tube? They are completely silent
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Saying it's written by someone instantly affords it a level of credibility. If the person is anonymous, that credibility disappears.
 
I don't know which videos you've watched, but even brushless motors make noise, it's just masked by the machine run by the motor.

SammyC

If you followed his blog in any detail I don't think you'd question his credibilty. There's nobody else writing from within the pelaton like he does,. and a few pros have come out in support of some of his previous posts.
 
Anyway Greg Lemond (who has bucketloads of credibilty) has done several interviews lately on the subject. Including whilst recently visiting New Zealand. In every one of those interviews he refers to the motors he has tested being silent.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559454" data-time="1455841527">
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If you followed his blog in any detail I don't think you'd question his credibilty. There's nobody else writing from within the pelaton like he does,. and a few pros have come out in support of some of his previous posts.
 
Anyway Greg Lemond (who has bucketloads of credibilty) has done several interviews lately on the subject. Including whilst recently visiting New Zealand. In every one of those interviews he refers to the motors he has tested being silent. 
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In this video you can clearly hear it.

And I used to be in Artillery, so if I can hear it...

SammyC

That video accompanied an article at <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/'>http://cyclingtips.com/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/</a>
 
in the article Lemond says this
 
â€œThis is the production model but higher cost versions are available. The very expensive ones have ceramic gears and are silent. I rode one before and it was very quiet.â€
and this
â€œI believe it has been used in top level races,â€ he said. â€œI havenâ€™t seen anything unusual in this yearâ€™s Tour, but it is something that I have tried to talk to the UCI about for them to take it seriously. I think they should, but they are not.

SammyC

Also, not sure if you've ever heard a pro pelaton ride past? but the noise is huge, like a freight train.
 
So any small amount of noise is easily masked in that environment

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559460" data-time="1455842296">
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Also, not sure if you've ever heard a pro pelaton ride past? but the noise is huge, like a freight train.
 
So any small amount of noise is easily masked in that environment
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Is it becasue of all the hyperbole that gets dragged along?

SammyC

As I've said in other threads, cyclists cheat.
 
They have done so since the early 1900's and most likely before that.
 
If they are willing to cheat in so many other ways......... Then why is a hidden motor so preposterous to guys on here, yet seasoned pro's like Lemond and Mario Cipplolini have make reference to it being a problem?

antipodean

You'd think if Lemond was going to make a point, he'd show one that was silent. The sort of silent that as people ride off into the sunset leaving the peloton behind them you'd not hear...

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559464" data-time="1455842948">
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You'd think if Lemond was going to make a point, he'd show one that was silent. The sort of silent that as people ride off into the sunset leaving the peloton behind them you'd not hear...
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read the article, he explains why he used that bike.
 
You're being too simplistic anyway... It doesn't have to be used that way. It could be used within the peloton to save energy for a sprint later on. Saving 100watts as the article suggests can be done, could be used in this way. Before a quick bike change on the road to legal bike to ride away and finish the stage. (ala Contador with his multiple bike changes on one stage last year)

SammyC

And watching that video, and doing a lot of cycling myself, I don't think it would be that noticable even in a group of 2 or 3. High performance bikes make a bit of noise without motors

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559463" data-time="1455842853">As I've said in other threads, cyclists cheat. They have done so since the early 1900's and most likely before that. If they are willing to cheat in so many other ways......... Then why is a hidden motor so preposterous to guys on here, yet seasoned pro's like Lemond and Mario Cipplolini have make reference to it being a problem?</blockquote> Of course Cipo is going to claim everyone else is cheating. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559466" data-time="1455843154">read the article, he explains why he used that bike.</blockquote>All I can find is 'He had the machine made to illustrate his concerns about the availability and potential of the technology.' <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">You're being too simplistic anyway... It doesn't have to be used that way. It could be used within the peloton to save energy for a sprint later on. Saving 100watts as the article suggests can be done, could be used in this way. Before a quick bike change on the road to legal bike to ride away and finish the stage. (ala Contador with his multiple bike changes on one stage last year)</blockquote> True it's entirely possible, but there are better reasons to swap bikes. Unless UCI are playing silly buggers again, they've been inspecting for motors for some time now and despite the hills in the Giro, they didn't find a mechanically assisted bike there. Perhaps an engine does explain why classics riders are now managing to tempo ride up mountains with the best climbers in the world...

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559474" data-time="1455844494">
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Perhaps an engine does explain why classics riders are now managing to tempo ride up mountains with the best climbers in the world...
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Ala big George Hincapie beating all the little colombians up the hill towing Armstrong. Or Gerrant Thomas doing it for froome?
 
If something looks wrong in cycling then I generally assume the worst, having seen it all before.

SammyC

More has emerged over the weekend regarding the issue of mechanical doping. A french TV programme has made some claims about recent high profile races
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-used-in-strade-bianche-and-coppi-e-bartali-claims-investigation/?utm_content=buffer02b68&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer'>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-used-in-strade-bianche-and-coppi-e-bartali-claims-investigation/?utm_content=buffer02b68&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer</a>
 
If you can speak french, the programme is here in 2 x 15 min sections.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://cyclinghub.tv/'>http://cyclinghub.tv/</a>

The Silver Fern

How are cyclists cheating now?