Hello Boomer...
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@raznomore said in Hello Boomer...:
@taniwharugby this is true but that music bs didn’t really start until the 90s.
Kevin Roberts from Saatchi and Saatchi was on the nzru board at the time and he was probably behind it.
Whatever inroads or goodwill League made in the Winfield cup years in the early to mid 90s they thoroughly pissed away pretty quickly with the super league bullshit and the farce that’s the warriors so it’s no excuse for the pa blaring out “ heeeeeeey baby ooh ahh I wanna knoooooow” every time there’s a lineout .
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@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@raznomore @mariner4life well laa dee daa! Look at you tertiary educated brain boxes.
easy there, i forgot you muslim extremists hate the educated. but the trigger down
Muslim? Oh we all look the same to you huh.
Yer dern tootin
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@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
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@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
You could always try "restaurants" other than 'spoons?
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@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
You could always try "restaurants" other than 'spoons?
I wish! Maybe its a London thing, but I actually find higher-end restaurants are the worst at this.
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@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
You could always try "restaurants" other than 'spoons?
Isn't Weatherpsoons whole thing that they didn't play any music at all (and had cheap beer ..... )?
That was the case 20 years ago when I lived there.
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I've probably told this story several times on here. But anecdote time.
I reckon I could well have been in attendance at the very first rugby game in NZ that played after-try music.
I moved to Wellington in 94, and started going to Athletic a few times a year, Wellington were a fun but flawed team to follow, and even with 12 to 15,000 Athletic Park would feel like it was humming.
First S12 season, Athletic Park, was like Wellington games but even better. Bigger crowds plus now the regional folk heroes to follow like Bull Allen, Norm Hewitt, Christian Cullen. Then in one game during this 96 or 97 season they would play the Hurricanes jingle after a try was scored. PA knowledge was pretty crude at the time, so it was speakers on the grass facing the stands and they were loud, I mean LOUD!
So after Cullen scores a typical spectacular Hurricanes try, the stadium is going off. Learner days for the PA guy , bit slow to start the jingle, Turns it on. It is so LOUD, last about 30 seconds by which time the players are back behind half way when he turns it off. Complete silence, pin drop silence. Everyone had stopped cheering as they couldn’t hear a thing anyway. Nervous giggles from a few places.
Atmosphere sucker.
At this point in the normal process, the crowd near wherever the tryscorer stood for kick-off receipt would be giving him a special extra clap and cheer etc. Silence.
The marketing people needed to do an exit poll that day on what people thought of their ‘atmosphere-inducing’ innovation. Should have been nipped in the bud back in 1996.
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Its interesting that the recent crowds in NZ sport with any kind of atmosphere are ones without constant DJ interference.
MCG boxing day test, no music in test cricket. OK, element of boys on tour going large etc, and the co-opting of the barmy army song was cringy. But the cheering of even Blundell singles when they could sense a period of pressure was almost spine-tingling. The sense of a crowd willing someone on and being allowed to get involved and feeling like they can make a difference.
Other examples are the Phoenix, and All Whites world cup qualifiers. Yes, they’re singing, and yes they’re Europhiles trying to recreate a European and English environment. But 45 minute halves with no stoppages and therefore no music. When you get the full crowds like the WC Qualifiers or the early days of Phoenix play-off games - the atmosphere was really enjoyable, and responsive to the flows of the game.
Yet, despite this above. I really dislike parts of the Barmy Army. As they are about themselves. Singing Jeruulalem, totally ambivalent to the game. E.g. suddenly going from quiet to loud on the “Je – RU “ part just as a bowler is about to release, etc. Pisses me off if it’s my batsman and their bowler. Same with the “Who we aaaare” response chant. Suddenly quiet to loud and totally irrelevant to what is happening in the match. I find it distracting and am amazed that batsmen can keep their concentration.
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@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter totally works at NBL games
It does, but...
I'm a basketball guy through and through, played since I was 5 blah blah blah. And I still watch and follow the game.
BUT, there is no getting away from the fact that basketball fans at live games are by and large fcking weirdos. So many games I've been sitting there and feel like I'm at a Dungeons and Dragons Convention. It's a beautiful combination of family fun and a great night out for inbred couples.
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@voodoo said in Hello Boomer...:
@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter totally works at NBL games
It does, but...
I'm a basketball guy through and through, played since I was 5 blah blah blah. And I still watch and follow the game.
BUT, there is no getting away from the fact that basketball fans at live games are by and large fcking weirdos. So many games I've been sitting there and feel like I'm at a Dungeons and Dragons Convention. It's a beautiful combination of family fun and a great night out for inbred couples.
What a great description.
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@voodoo said in Hello Boomer...:
@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter totally works at NBL games
It does, but...
I'm a basketball guy through and through, played since I was 5 blah blah blah. And I still watch and follow the game.
BUT, there is no getting away from the fact that basketball fans at live games are by and large fcking weirdos. So many games I've been sitting there and feel like I'm at a Dungeons and Dragons Convention. It's a beautiful combination of family fun and a great night out for inbred couples.
where the fuck are you going to games?
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@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@voodoo said in Hello Boomer...:
@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter totally works at NBL games
It does, but...
I'm a basketball guy through and through, played since I was 5 blah blah blah. And I still watch and follow the game.
BUT, there is no getting away from the fact that basketball fans at live games are by and large fcking weirdos. So many games I've been sitting there and feel like I'm at a Dungeons and Dragons Convention. It's a beautiful combination of family fun and a great night out for inbred couples.
where the fuck are you going to games?
Taipans, I heard.
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@mariner4life Sydney would be the worst. But also Illawarra, Brisbane, in Oz and Auckland, Dunedin, Palmy , Welly etc in NZ
You telling me that Cairns is the outlier with only regular guys alongside hot 23yr olds in rowdy groups?
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Some of my favourite sporting experiences were attending college basketball games in the USA. I sat in the student section so the banter and atmosphere was always better than in the general public areas. Kirk Penney used to get shit when Wisconsin came to play. The only music was provided by the college band to accompany songs sung by the students. Maybe things have changed since then and they use more piped music.
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@voodoo said in Hello Boomer...:
@mariner4life Sydney would be the worst. But also Illawarra, Brisbane, in Oz and Auckland, Dunedin, Palmy , Welly etc in NZ
You telling me that Cairns is the outlier with only regular guys alongside hot 23yr olds in rowdy groups?
nah, Cairns has some hard core nuffies. I'm a bit protected because all the people around us have had the same seats for years
also the chick who sits directly in front of me is a total fox
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@mariner4life said in Hello Boomer...:
nah, Cairns has some hard core nuffies. I'm a bit protected because all the people around us have had the same seats for years
When I've watched the Taipans all I see are Dewey Crowe look-a-likes in the crowd wearing orange.
also the chick who sits directly in front of me is a total fox
Now you are making me want to watch another game. Where should we be looking?
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@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
You could always try "restaurants" other than 'spoons?
I wish! Maybe its a London thing, but I actually find higher-end restaurants are the worst at this.
This exact thing was my first foray into aged thinking. It was 2013 in Vegas, we were in this steak place and the waiter had to yell out the specials because it was so loud.
One of the best steaks I've ever had, but man I was glad to leave that joint.
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@MajorRage said in Hello Boomer...:
@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@Bones said in Hello Boomer...:
@TeWaio said in Hello Boomer...:
@No-Quarter said in Hello Boomer...:
@Rapido it feels like such a grumpy old man thing to complain about but I so agree with you. Crap music at sporting events is an absolute blight and it actively detracts from the whole experience, to the point you don't actually want to attend.
I'm almost certain if they cut that shit out crowd numbers would go up.
Totally agree. Don't even get me started on restaurants with awful acoustics blaring music so you can't have a conversation. Apparently it's "atmosphere". Gaah.
You could always try "restaurants" other than 'spoons?
I wish! Maybe its a London thing, but I actually find higher-end restaurants are the worst at this.
This exact thing was my first foray into aged thinking. It was 2013 in Vegas, we were in this steak place and the waiter had to yell out the specials because it was so loud.
One of the best steaks I've ever had, but man I was glad to leave that joint.
Jay Rayner agrees with me, which makes me automatically right.
‘Great food, but please do something about the noise’ – the battle for quieter restaurants
Background noise in some eateries can reach the equivalent of a lawnmower or a motorbike. It’s enough to put you off your dinner
‘Great food, but please do something about the noise’ – the battle for quieter restaurants
Background noise in some eateries can reach the equivalent of a lawnmower or a motorbike. It’s enough to put you off your dinnerEllie Violet Bramley
Thu 9 May 2019
Gregory Scott’s friends have asked him to find a quiet restaurant for dinner. Until recently this would have been a challenge, given that Scott lives in New York. “It’s known to be one of the noisiest cities in the world,” he says. Now he feels confident that, although he has never been, a small borscht joint called Ukrainian East Village will fit the bill.
That’s because last year Scott set up an app called Soundprint – the “Yelp for noise”. It allows users to search for restaurants conducive to conversation – and, in turn, asks them to record decibel (dB) levels (the app comes with a meter) in other establishments. It has had more than 60,000 submissions, with more than 500 coming from the UK. Ukrainian East Village has been measured four times by app users and averaged 74dB, a “moderate” level that Scott says is great for conversation. As someone with permanent hearing loss, he has a particular interest in such places.
The dB levels at many restaurants far exceed this pleasant thrum. The average sound level recorded in UK restaurants on Soundprint, taken between 6pm and 9pm, is 79dB. “I’m sure many of those are above 80, and I’m sure some are above 85,” says Scott. “It’s really loud for conversation.” In 2017, the UK charity Action on Hearing Loss (AoHL) found that noise levels in some well-known chains, such as Patisserie Valerie, topped 90dB on busy evenings. That’s the equivalent of munching your croissant next to a lawnmower or motorbike.
The knock-on effects are clear. According to AoHL, 79% of people, both those with and without hearing loss, had experienced difficulty holding a conversation while eating out. Eight out of 10 reported having left a restaurant, cafe or pub early because of the noise. Ninety-one per cent said they would not return to venues where noise levels were too high, and 43% have opted for a takeaway instead of going out and decibel-dodging.
Anecdotally, at least, it hasn’t always been this way. “It certainly seems restaurants have got louder,” says Roger Wicks, director of policy and campaigns at AoHL. “That’s what people are saying to us.”
So why are they so loud? “The restaurant trade is ‘a young person’s game’,” says the Observer’s restaurant critic, Jay Rayner. Although a “mere 52” himself and with no hearing problems, he knows first-hand the impact they can have. “My dear late mother, Claire, loved restaurants, but eventually closed down on them because she couldn’t hear conversation in them – it was massively distressing for her.”
Thanks to the Lombard effect, which means that noise breeds noise, even limited background music can lead to shouted exchanges, as speakers raise their voices in order to be heard. Modern restaurant designers aren’t helping. As Rayner puts it, they love “bare brick, filament light bulbs, vaulted ceilings” rather than soft, sound-deadening surfaces.
Some commentators, including the FT food writer Alexander Gilmour, think ageism plays a part. “There is a theory that young people are cooler than older people, they eat faster, drink the bar and dig the music. And they yell,” he wrote last year. “Why bother creating spaces in which people – beyond the drunken 20-year-old – can thrive?”
As a thirtysomething with tinnitus and some associated hearing loss who, even as a twentysomething, was sometimes unable to hear in “younger” establishments, I find this take a little narrow. Who hasn’t, 18 or 80, hearing problems or not, occasionally nodded along and pretended to hear? But, of course, “most people with hearing loss are older,” as Wicks says. “Eleven million in the UK and increasing every year. By 2035 that will reach about 13 million.” It will, according to the professor of auditory neuroscience Jennifer Bizley, increasingly become a problem, with younger generations “pretty doomed” because they are exposed to so much noise.
So what can be done to bring volume levels down? Some restaurants have called in acoustic experts. Stefano Meloni is the senior manager at Tozi in Victoria, central London, where the high ceilings and bare walls provoked Rayner to write in a review: “If you are one of those with hearing issues related to hard surfaces … Tozi will not make you happy.” It was a problem the restaurant was already aware of, Meloni says, and it has since had sound-dampening panels installed on the ceiling. “It improved a lot,” he says.
This isn’t something every restaurant will be able to afford. “To get a quieter restaurant may well cost you,” Wicks acknowledges. However, there are cheaper fixes. Restaurateurs “could provide quiet areas, certainly away from the kitchen and speakers. And whenever they can, introduce soft furnishings, something that absorbs the sound.”
Yet few restaurants seem to take noise seriously – despite the fact that noisy venues are more likely to have a lasting effect on their staff than on their patrons. “Some restaurants and chains have said the right thing,” says Wicks, “but nobody’s really engaged.”
To make restaurateurs appreciate the value of bringing sound levels down, the perception that noise equals “everybody’s having fun” needs challenging. “Noise doesn’t create the atmosphere,” Meloni insists. “The atmosphere is created by the waiters and the managers.”
Ben Hancock is a director at Oscar Acoustics, which installs acoustic finishes. As he explains, noise reduction doesn’t have to mean killing the vibe – recently, working with Ottolenghi, the brief was to absorb enough sound to make speech easy, but also “keep an atmospheric buzz”. The level of sound absorption depends on the thickness of Hancock’s sprayed-on acoustic finish – what they went for “fine-tuned the acoustic so it was right on the edge”.
And what can diners do? For a start, we can complain when we find ourselves somewhere unacceptably noisy. If you find this embarrassing, take heart. I was emboldened recently while at a burger restaurant to ask for the music to be turned down. Granted it was only changed a smidge, but we were offered a quieter table – and I suspect the request had something to do with the free wine that was later brought over. More and more, people are using social media to feed back, too. TripAdvisor – where the now-quieter Tozi was once described as a “noise bomb” – and Open Table have become powerful weapons in diners’ toolkits.
This is also where data from apps such as Scott’s or the AoHL-recommended Decibel X comes in. “You’re starting to hear a lot more from the users of the app that they feel empowered to let the venue managers know: ‘The food is great but please do something about the noise,’” says Scott. The more data on just how loud these places are, the easier it will be to make restaurants prick up their ears.
All this noise can’t be good for business, particularly given that one recent study found that loud noise compromises taste. Many restaurateurs probably don’t realise how bad things have got. For city-dwellers especially, life in general is extremely loud. I measured 104dB on the London underground the other night – that’s louder than a jackhammer. “Lots of people will say, ‘The restaurant wasn’t that loud,’” says Scott. “But go to a quiet place and acclimate yourself and you’ll realise how loud a lot of them are.”
Finding quieter spots, even if you have tiptop hearing, might just make meals out more enjoyable. As Rayner says: “One of the joys of restaurants is that they’re a brilliant place for disclosure. If you’re going, ‘Sorry, what? You did what? To whom?’ you’re going to miss out on the juicy details. What’s the fun?”
