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2020 All Blacks Squad

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2020 All Blacks Squad
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Nepia on last edited by
    #454

    @Nepia How many did he win against England?

    From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.

    I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.

    mariner4lifeM gt12G NepiaN 3 Replies Last reply
    0
  • mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4life
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #455

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Nepia How many did he win against England?

    From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.

    I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.

    This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.

    He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
    6
  • StargazerS Offline
    StargazerS Offline
    Stargazer
    wrote on last edited by
    #456

    Reading the previous posts, there's still hope for Levi Aumua 😂

    P 1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • gt12G Offline
    gt12G Offline
    gt12
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by gt12
    #457

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Nepia How many did he win against England?

    From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.

    I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.

    I think there’s some truth in this, and we let Tuilagi and the other backs get too much room all day. I think much of that is due to our defensive system, which was very passive, so we made our tackles (mostly) but also gave up ground. In the final, SA got around this by using an accurate rush - Manu hardly saw the ball.

    We are a bit over reliant on Cane, Savea, and BBBR to make impact tackles around the ruck and towards midfield pods. One player who can help out in the future may be Moli, who was hammering guys around the ruck in the Wales game. Frizzel could develop to be this guy, and I think both Jacobson and Paps can bring it too.

    In the midfield, I hate to say it, but I actually think the weak link is (or was) Mo’unga. We’ve been trying to find ways to hide him, as he tends to give up ground even if he makes his tackles. With him defending in or around the midfield plus a passive line, we can get in huge trouble - that was a key strategy England used all day. I think he has to defend closer to the ruck where he can get more help, and simply put, improve his defense.

    I do agree that we were a bit small our wide, but putting back Rieko helps that, although with Dmac back we may get smaller (but more dangerous) at FB towards the end of games.

    If we do want size/collisions in midfield, then the argument for Laumape gets stronger, but our two best midfielders are ALB and Jack. I think the secondary problem we had this year is that ALB has been really effective at 13 for the ABs but hardly played 12 for us, and just couldn’t be as effective without a bit more help from SBW or Crotty. His quick feet in traffic get more effective when we can use him a bit wider, so getting that balance right is a key challenge - having a bigger winger or ball running forward to do some of the in-close dummy running or hit-ups may be needed, so that ALB can get to the fringes with Coles and a winger, where he can cause havoc.

    I can’t wait for next year.

    taniwharugbyT Chris B.C antipodeanA 3 Replies Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to gt12 on last edited by
    #458

    @gt12 Laumape is only listed as a kg heavier than ALB...

    Chris B.C mariner4lifeM BovidaeB gt12G 4 Replies Last reply
    0
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to gt12 on last edited by
    #459

    @gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.

    If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.

    M 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • SnowyS Offline
    SnowyS Offline
    Snowy
    replied to Nepia on last edited by
    #460

    @Nepia said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    Is this one of those Fern things (like England were apparently always unbeatable) that gets started and then people just start believing it for no good reason?

    I just assume that everything on here is wrong, which usually makes me right.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #461

    @taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Laumape is only listed as a kg heavier than ALB...

    Yes - and you really should check your postbox for that Master of Reality refund! 🙂

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4life
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #462

    @taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Laumape is only listed as a kg heavier than ALB...

    which sort of confirms to me that our two best midfielders aren't considered "punchy" enough because they are too light skinned.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • antipodeanA Online
    antipodeanA Online
    antipodean
    replied to Higgins on last edited by
    #463

    @Higgins said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    If you're n the back foot, who do you give it to to smash forward and get some front foot ball?

    Maybe they should rely on innovative superior skills (and hopefully speed) rather than trying to bash and smash your way through to see some dividends paid.

    alt text

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
    4
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to antipodean on last edited by
    #464

    @antipodean Exactly right!
    Size is a good attribute for a rugby player.
    Speed is a good attribute for a rugby player.
    Being skillful is a good attribute for a rugby player.
    Being smart if a good attribute for a rugby player.

    If you have a big, fast, skillful and smart rugby player, he's probably going to be a better player than a small, slow, clumsy and stupid player.

    SnowyS 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • BovidaeB Offline
    BovidaeB Offline
    Bovidae
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #465

    @taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Laumape is only listed as a kg heavier than ALB...

    Laumape looks bigger because he's not that tall. Mo'unga has 5 cm on him.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Machpants
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #466

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.

    If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.

    Sorry who has ever been a strong defender at FB? Not front on anyway. BB is awesome on defence, chasing back, and that is a FB main role. But front on one-on-one, there never has been a great defender in the ABs or most other teams.

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • gt12G Offline
    gt12G Offline
    gt12
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #467

    @taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Laumape is only listed as a kg heavier than ALB...

    That’s why I said size/collisions, which is a key part of Laumape’s game - crash ball running is a key skill he brings and can be used well as a dummy runner (how SBW is also often used). ALB on the other hand is better using his quick feet in traffic - that’s not to say he’s small or can’t be the crash runner, just that I don’t like him being used that way - he’s usually better with a little more space.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Machpants on last edited by
    #468

    @Machpants said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @gt12 Yeah - it's one of the problems with our two play-maker system. Offensively it's good, but defensively it creates weaknesses.

    If you've got a strong defender at fullback, you can move him forward to defend in the first five channel and stick your first five at the back - but if you've got Richie, Beauden (or DMac) there's only marginal gains from shuffling them around.

    Sorry who has ever been a strong defender at FB? Not front on anyway. BB is awesome on defence, chasing back, and that is a FB main role. But front on one-on-one, there never has been a great defender in the ABs or most other teams.

    David Havili. The Crusaders often use him to cover for Richie.

    M 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Machpants
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #469

    @Chris-B Better defender than Richie is not necessarily great defender. BB is better, by a margin

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Machpants on last edited by
    #470

    @Machpants We'll differ on that one.

    How about Jordie then? Lots of people seem to think his future is in the midfield - it won't be if he's a poor defender.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • antipodeanA Online
    antipodeanA Online
    antipodean
    replied to gt12 on last edited by
    #471

    @gt12 said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    In the midfield, I hate to say it, but I actually think the weak link is (or was) Mo’unga. We’ve been trying to find ways to hide him, as he tends to give up ground even if he makes his tackles. With him defending in or around the midfield plus a passive line, we can get in huge trouble - that was a key strategy England used all day. I think he has to defend closer to the ruck where he can get more help, and simply put, improve his defense.

    Agreed. His defence is amazingly passive and McLeod appears to have developed a pattern to hide five-eighths out near the wing. The same thing we used to give the Wallabies shit about when they were doing it with their Tokoroan.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • nzzpN Offline
    nzzpN Offline
    nzzp
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #472

    @mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Nepia How many did he win against England?

    From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.

    I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.

    This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.

    He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.

    alt text

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #473

    @nzzp said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:

    @Nepia How many did he win against England?

    From what I saw England were mainly able to plough forward and our dominant hits were few and far between.

    I'm not pointing the finger at ALB - but, I am saying that collectively, the size of our backs division was a problem.

    This is the reason i think Frank Bunce is the best centre i ever saw. It didn't matter what the ball was, or what the rest of the team was doing, Frank was almost a guarantee to generate quick, front-foot ball. A fucking hero.

    He also liked to absolutely level blokes in tackles. I love Frank.

    alt text

    I love that photo. Everyone is either focused on Frank or where Frank will end up bar one person, who looks like he's had enough and running away

    NepiaN 1 Reply Last reply
    0

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