Hansen
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So, I stand by my assertion that Hansen could only do so much with the available cattle. Losing C Smith, Nonu, Carter, McCaw, Woodcock and Mealamu after 2015 (and Kaino after 2017) was always going to be an enormous challenge and replacing those guys plus trying to nurse through other aging stars resulted in holes and selection inconsistencies.
The cattle argument would hold a lot more water if there were any posts four years ago, a year ago, when the WC squad was named or when the team for Saturday was named (that's on Thursday FYI) saying "on paper I think they are better than us" - which no one did.
I'm not going to cry a river for Hansen having Barrett and Cane waiting in the wings to replace Carter and McCaw. Woodcock was out by the pointy end of 2011 and Taylor is every bit the player of 2015 Mealamu/Hore.
This side isn't a patch on 2015 of course - but could it have been as good as 2011? Just on a one off fixture could they have produced a better performance than Saturday (or the England/Ireland games on the EOYT, or last two Lions tests?). Absolutely.
This is very much an issue of how the cards were played than how they were dealt.
Who in their right mind would have taken England's hand after not making it out of pool play over ours in 2015?
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Time for the All Blacks to be more ruthless and nasty.
On the field, yes. Def need some mongrel - we've allowed ourselves to be bullied in few tests and haven't taken a deep breath, toughed it out and gained ascendemcy.
However, I'm happy with the "Nice All Black" image. Far too much of rugby is going down the whiny soccer route without NZ adding to it.
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@Billy-Tell said in Hansen:
@Kirwan Exactly. And dropping Ioane and Cane was really aggravating.
Every 50/50 selection call had a Crusader bias too.
Seriously?!
This is the conspiracy theory nut job stuff.
Bridge, Reese, stupid Barrett at 6, Richie over BB at ten, broken Read persisted with, Taylor over Coles.
Each selection went the Crusaders way.
Meanwhile Crotty had the wisdom to have changed some tactics and was out of 23.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Hansen:
Time for the All Blacks to be more ruthless and nasty.
On the field, yes. Def need some mongrel - we've allowed ourselves to be bullied in few tests and haven't taken a deep breath, toughed it out and gained ascendemcy.
However, I'm happy with the "Nice All Black" image. Far too much of rugby is going down the whiny soccer route without NZ adding to it.
Don't want winny soccer approach just more pragmatism and realism. Not Ronaldo or Wayne Rooney, more like Colin Meads or Richie McCaw.
It isn't the All Blacks job to manage and to promote Rugby as a brand around the world that is World Rugby's task.
The All Blacks have become so obsessed with being liked beyond their own shores that it almost seems needy at times.
Tew and Hansen became too idealistic. Reading Carok Dweck and Martin Seligman, while Eddie Jones and Rassie Erasmus were looking to Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Clausewitz for inspiration.
It is cruel and nasty world. Naive bunnies get eaten up.
Being likeable is for Disney characters. The prime job of All Blacks is to crush the dreams of other international Rugby players on the field.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Hansen:
Time for the All Blacks to be more ruthless and nasty.
On the field, yes. Def need some mongrel - we've allowed ourselves to be bullied in few tests and haven't taken a deep breath, toughed it out and gained ascendemcy.
However, I'm happy with the "Nice All Black" image. Far too much of rugby is going down the whiny soccer route without NZ adding to it.
Don't want winny soccer approach just more pragmatism and realism. Not Ronaldo or Wayne Rooney, more like Colin Meads or Richie McCaw.
It isn't the All Blacks job to manage and to promote Rugby as a brand around the world that is World Rugby's task.
The All Blacks have become so obsessed with being liked beyond their own shores that it almost seems needy at times.
Tew and Hansen became too idealistic. Reading Carok Dwek and Martin Seligman, while Eddie Jones and Rassie Erasmus were looking to Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Clausewitz for inspiration.
It is cruel and nasty world. Naive bunnies get eaten up.
Being likeable is for Disney characters. The prime job of All Blacks is to crush the dreams of other international Rugby players on the field.
This last bit.
Everyone loves a winner.
Except of course I would substitute All Blacks for Springboks. -
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Bridge was poor. Its a bit pointless arguing who was more poor. And really Bridge and Reece only made the starting team because of who they play for
Coaches naturally have preferences for the team they support. But a good coach has the maturity to put his preferences to one side and pick the best team. They must do this and also make it seem as they doing this otherwise its likely to create a strange atmosphere in the team. When Hansen picked Barrett over Cane it was obvious what was going on. Then what followed was a dreadful performance
Hansen failed the maturity test. As Wylie, Hart and Deans did before him. Henry and Smith didn't.
The next coach can't be Robertson. He's not ready yet. Go overseas and coach for a few years to prove he can coach outside the safe Crusaders environment. I just like the look of Joseph and Brown. Greta combination and Joseph is a perfect front person
Utter garbage. Bridge and Reece had both earned their spots and neither are to blame for what happened yesterday. You have ZERO credibility when you promote this Hansen Crusaders bias crap at the same time as blatantly ignoring how poor your boy Jordie was off the bench, in a continuation of his legacy of AB brain farts. Also, how much time have you spent in the AB environment, enabling you to comment on the atmosphere within the side??
It’s really sad and unfortunate that AB losses bring out the absolute worse in “fans”. I said a few weeks ago that there are those waiting for a loss to bring knives out for Bridge , Reece and Mounga and it comes to pass. At least I am happy that team is taking the loss with dignity.
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At least I am happy that team is taking the loss with dignity.
Yes and had the good grace to stay on the field and bow to the fans - leassons learned = not like the '99 side which all (apart from Jonah) scuttled away down the tunnel immediately after the loss, and afterwards some (Kelleher et al) were seen laughing it up queuing for restaurant and movie.
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@Jailbreak7 tbf most of them bar Jonah looked like that right from getting off the bus before the game
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@Jailbreak7 Doug Howlett was arrested in 2007 for jumping on parked cars outside the Heathrow Hilton:
Rugby Union: Howlett arrested after damaging cars at Heathrow airport
Rugby union: New Zealand winger bailed after jumping on two cars outside airport hotel.
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@taniwharugby said in Hansen:
@Jailbreak7 tbf most of them bar Jonah looked like that right from getting off the bus before the game
That’s a pretty average observation. How can you question the mindset of an All Black team in a RWC semi final?
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@rotated were you there? Thats the 'average' read I got, coupled with the warming up on the field, the 2nd half, I think it showed they weren't in the right space...to much laughing, joking, messing about.
I know everyone relaxes differently, but this was different.
Other people I spoke to thought similar.
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@Machpants Nope, complete Truth. When has this team won the big ones?
The Bled return match at the fortress when we needed to 35-0 to retain the Bled.... That was HUGE and one of the biggest games of the year
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I hate the way people put the boot in to Hansen AFTER he has left....he was a great coach and a great ambassador for NZ rugby and NZ as a nation...Thank you Steve...good luck and hope you get the gig of a lifetime after this RWC.
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@taniwharugby said in Hansen:
@rotated were you there? Thats the 'average' read I got, coupled with the warming up on the field, the 2nd half, I think it showed they weren't in the right space...to much laughing, joking, messing about.
I know everyone relaxes differently, but this was different.
Other people I spoke to thought similar.
Just taking the piss at how Hansen threatened to teach a report a lesson for suggesting the same thing at the press conference.
I completely agree with your observation.
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@Blackheart said in Hansen:
I hate the way people put the boot in to Hansen AFTER he has left....he was a great coach and a great ambassador for NZ rugby and NZ as a nation...Thank you Steve...good luck and hope you get the gig of a lifetime after this RWC.
Again, people have been critical of selections all year. Longer in some cases.
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@Blackheart said in Hansen:
I hate the way people put the boot in to Hansen AFTER he has left....he was a great coach and a great ambassador for NZ rugby and NZ as a nation...Thank you Steve...good luck and hope you get the gig of a lifetime after this RWC.
No one is doubting that Hansen was a great ambassador for NZ Rugby and is a good bloke.
No one is questioning that England were excellent on Saturday.
What some of us have been questioning for some time are the strategic decisions that have been taken by Hansen and NZRU concerning the ABs in the last couple of years, especially leaving him with sub-par Assistant Coaches since Wayne Smith left.
Big difference between that and "putting the boot in" as you call it.
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Being critical of selections is one thing - filling actual holes is another. Did we have the best 15 players starting? I think we had 14 of the best starting options and the 15th on the bench. If Todd had been fit, I would have started Cane with Todd on the bench and dropped Pat T. I'm not sure it would have made a difference...
Look at the number of props that have been tried over the last 3 years. I count at least 8 players (Franks, Moody, Karl T, Ofa T, Laulala, Moli, Angus T, Faumuina) of which 2 have effectively retired
Look at the number of midfield combos that we have tried? I count at least 5 players (SBW, Crotty, ALB, Goodhue, Laumape)
Look at the number of options we have tried at 6 and they haven't worked out? Kaino (retired), Squires (not an answer), Savea (not his best position IMHO), SB (not his best position...), Frizell, Hemopo (off to Japan), Fafita (not an answer at the moment)Much of the criticism directed at the result of this game ignores what the AB's have done to try and fill gaps, often caused by injuries, in the last few years and whether some of the fringe players could have come into better form in this tournament. It's possible, but how many risks do you take?
Based on performances in yesterdays game, the players I expected more from were Taylor, Whitelock, Retallick, Savea and Read. I'm ignoring backs for now - we lost this game in the forwards. We missed Savea in support at breakdowns (other than that he played well and improved when Cane came on) and the other four an uncharacteristic number of errors compared to their usual games. SB made errors too, but I'm giving him a pass based on coaches playing him out of position and the props did enough.
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@Winger the only problem with saying 'go overseas' is that there is a huge risk they wont be coming back.
