Nonu

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="535807" data-time="1446057073">
<div>
Toeava wanted to come back to the Blues but the NZRU wouldn't give him dispensation to play. Disgraceful decision.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Really? I missed this ... anything in the media about it?
 
As a Blues fan, I'd welcome him back with open arms

dejo

Where's Davidav when you need him?

rotated

Toeava was our best back on the 2010 EOYT and is the only AB I can think of with man of the match performances in three positions over his career. 
Toeava was an absolute beast by the end. SBW getting jammed into the side at any expense kind of messed things up in the end for him as a utility. 
His career was disappointing but he still reached a really high level of play in the end I think.

Victor Meldrew

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="535812" data-time="1446058432">
<div>
 SBW getting jammed into the side at any expense kind of messed things up in the end for him as a utility. 

</div>
</blockquote>
You do have to wonder if there have been some machinations going on with SBW at the top level don't you? Certainly hope not.

dejo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="535812" data-time="1446058432">
<div>
Toeava was our best back on the 2010 EOYT and is the only AB I can think of with man of the match performances in three positions over his career. 
Toeava was an absolute beast by the end. SBW getting jammed into the side at any expense kind of messed things up in the end for him as a utility. 
His career was disappointing but he still reached a really high level of play in the end I think.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
While I agree with this re Toeava's utility value and performances and initially with SBW's selection, from memory I believe the utility bench spot was still up for grabs during pool play and Toeava didn't exactly do himself any favours, with question marks about his decisions under pressure (a la Nonu pre 2007). Not that SBW was especially exciting either. Have to say he's really proved me wrong this tournament, I was firmly in the Fekitoa camp, but I really do feel comfortable with him playing big games, his temperament under pressure has really shone through IMO.

kiwiinmelb

Toeava had a heap of talent , just seemed to be something missing there that prevented him from going to the next level, 
 
I tend to think it had as much to do with injuries and being swapped from position to position that didnt allow him to reach his potential , plus some dam good competition around him ,
 
 he never really got his confidence going to the level required through all the interruptions , and the AB selectors would rush him back in when he looked underdone , and that didnt seem to help things

nostrildamus

That NZRU decision-what was their reason?

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="535894" data-time="1446074242">
<div>
That NZRU decision-what was their reason?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup</a>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Ironically, switching allegiance to his birth country may open the way for the man known as Ice to return to Super Rugby.
The Blues efforts to sign the talented utility came unstuck last year because he was not willing to give up his contract in Japan in order to satisfy the New Zealand Rugby Union's eligibility rules.
Toeava doesn't meet the NZRU criteria which says only players who have played 40 tests for the All Blacks or 80 Super Rugby matches can be registered as an overseas player with the NZRU.
To play for a Super Rugby team in New Zealand, players must sign up for the entire calendar year and make themselves available for a provincial side and the All Blacks.
However, Super Rugby teams are allowed to sign two overseas players, not eligible for the All Blacks.
</blockquote>

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="535894" data-time="1446074242">
<div>
That NZRU decision-what was their reason?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
"The Blues efforts to sign the talented utility came unstuck last year because he was not willing to give up his contract in Japan in order to satisfy the New Zealand Rugby Union's eligibility rules.
Toeava doesn't meet the NZRU criteria which says only players who have played 40 tests for the All Blacks or 80 Super Rugby matches can be registered as an overseas player with the NZRU.
To play for a Super Rugby team in New Zealand, players must sign up for the entire calendar year and make themselves available for a provincial side and the All Blacks."
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup</a>
Consider that he's basically playing 10 these days, was only 28 when looking to come back, and the Blues had a lack of depth in that position it could have really helped us. He played 36 tests and one match, they could have made an exception for him.
Annoying when you look the exceptions made for the SBWs of the world.

KiwiMurph

Yeah between the Toeava situation, the Piutau situation and not seemingly able to step in regarding Pulu, the NZRU don't seem all that keen to help out the struggling franchise in its biggest market...

antipodean

In my mind it seemed Toeava was rushed into the crucible of Test rugby and it took a long time for him to recover. His form in RWC2011 was superb and for Auckland he was always brilliant.
 
In hindsight a pity he wasn't managed better.

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="535912" data-time="1446075940">
<div>
"The Blues efforts to sign the talented utility came unstuck last year because he was not willing to give up his contract in Japan in order to satisfy the New Zealand Rugby Union's eligibility rules.
Toeava doesn't meet the NZRU criteria which says only players who have played 40 tests for the All Blacks or 80 Super Rugby matches can be registered as an overseas player with the NZRU.
To play for a Super Rugby team in New Zealand, players must sign up for the entire calendar year and make themselves available for a provincial side and the All Blacks."
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup</a>
Consider that he's basically playing 10 these days, was only 28 when looking to come back, and the Blues had a lack of depth in that position it could have really helped us. He played 36 tests and one match, they could have made an exception for him.
Annoying when you look the exceptions made for the SBWs of the world.
</div>
</blockquote>
I agree, a shame. Perhaps they should consider also World Cup appearances.

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="535932" data-time="1446079147">In my mind it seemed Toeava was rushed into the crucible of Test rugby and it took a long time for him to recover. His form in RWC2011 was superb and for Auckland he was always brilliant. 
In hindsight a pity he wasn't managed better.</blockquote>
 
Yep, the coaches (Smith in particular) learned not to make comparisons and to take more care in introducing players. Look at the difference in how Ben Smith was handled.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="535912" data-time="1446075940">
<div>
"The Blues efforts to sign the talented utility came unstuck last year because he was not willing to give up his contract in Japan in order to satisfy the New Zealand Rugby Union's eligibility rules.
Toeava doesn't meet the NZRU criteria which says only players who have played 40 tests for the All Blacks or 80 Super Rugby matches can be registered as an overseas player with the NZRU.
To play for a Super Rugby team in New Zealand, players must sign up for the entire calendar year and make themselves available for a provincial side and the All Blacks."
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10456409/Isaia-Toeava-linked-to-Samoa-for-the-World-Cup</a>
Consider that he's basically playing 10 these days, was only 28 when looking to come back, and the Blues had a lack of depth in that position it could have really helped us. He played 36 tests and one match, they could have made an exception for him.
Annoying when you look the exceptions made for the SBWs of the world.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Does that not sound like he wanted to play for the Blues but skip the AB's & Auckland part?
 
If you work on the idea that the Super teams are a step up the chain for ITM players & a feeder for the ABs then it makes total sense. Sure, it doesn't help the Blues much, but picking a young 10 from ITM & seeing if he can move up is better for NZ rugby. If we go down the road of NZ qualified guys stepping in for the Super games then pissing off to play offshore thats going to kill the ITM.
 
At least SBW committed to all NZ rugby when he came back didn't he? ABs, Waikato, Chiefs
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="536003" data-time="1446091231">
<div>
Yep, the coaches (Smith in particular) learned not to make comparisons and to take more care in introducing players. Look at the difference in how Ben Smith was handled.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
They've kinda handled Naholo exactly the way they did Ice, brought him, told all & sundry how amazing he was, put him in a huge preseure situation, subbed him like a sack of shit when he had tits for hands.

rotated

Toeava should have been credited the games he was forced to miss during the reconditioning window in 2007. At that point he is only a few games short either easily waived off as an exception or blamed on missed finals during this past horror coaching run.

Kirwan

You'd have more of a point if we weren't playing a Japanese halfback at the Clan and a Japanese Eight at the Chiefs. Two positions were we lack a bit of quality depth. 
Dispensations are made for other teams, just not the Blues it would seem. They have done something similar with Piutau wanting to play for the Blues in 2016.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="536106" data-time="1446113665">
<div>
 
They've kinda handled Naholo exactly the way they did Ice, brought him, told all & sundry how amazing he was, put him in a huge preseure situation, subbed him like a sack of shit when he had tits for hands.
</div>
</blockquote>
don't agree. toeava was what, 19 when selected? and hadn't even played super rugby? it was another couple of years before he was even really good at super level, in my memory.
waisake is 24 and has just had a completely dominant super rugby season, playing a big part in a hugely underdog team winning the comp.
 
they handled slade just as badly as toeava, bringing him back into the ABs with fuck-all game time of any sort in 2 years.

Sambo

I have no issue with Piutau being told to stick it. I'd rather have someone there available for the whole season committed to the blues. also gives the opportunity to develop whoever is going to be his long term replacement whether that is Visinia or Nanai.

Sambo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="536122" data-time="1446116596">don't agree. toeava was what, 19 when selected? and hadn't even played super rugby? it was another couple of years before he was even really good at super level, in my memory. 
waisake is 24 and has just had a completely dominant super rugby season, playing a big part in a hugely underdog team winning the comp. 
 
they handled slade just as badly as toeava, bringing him back into the ABs with fuck-all game time of any sort in 2 years.</blockquote> plus Naholo has played 7's for Titch.

Dice

<div>Sheesh, I miss Ice at the Blues. He was our outright best and most important player from 2007 - 2011. Often people give me the stink eye when I say I'd have him ahead of Cashmore and Mils in an all time Blues backline at 15, but Ice could do anything those two could do and more, he just played with a crappier cast. If he got to play a larger part of his career at 12, I think he'd go down as the best Blues 12 as well. He looked like the complete package whenever he got game time at 12, we just always had Stanley or McAlister in the team, so he never had to play there much.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In the last 8 years, I don't think we've felt a bigger impact from losing a player than Ice at the Blues. Our attack was always in the top bracket with him in the team, but is nothing but average without him. Our attack practically revolved around him, and he made others(particularly wingers) around him look better. I mean, he even made Lome Faatau look world class when he was at the Canes in 06. :shock:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It sucks that the NZRU didn't let him come back when they even let Faifili Levave come back for Super Rugby after skipping the ITM Cup to play Japanese rugby.</div>

The Silver Fern

Nonu