RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
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@No-Quarter said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
Richie was better in the second half of the Wellington test, and the pair continued their improvement in Bled 2 . Besides the fact that we should have won the game despite some abject handling and finishing, we let them in right at the end but they had little idea on attack. We must keep the faith
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Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
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@No-Quarter said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:I am really not sure about that. I think for all the talk about dual playmakers bottom line is when Beaudan is at 10 backs are static and his tactical kicking is not that great. However he is our best open field player and from the back he has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mounga is a better option than both DMac and BB at 10. Not sure that DMac cracks the 23 if fit but I think he would be in the squad before either Jordie or Reiko.
Just wondering what you're basing this on. Mo'unga's only half decent start at 10 for the ABs was Bled 2. Every other game he's struggled, and was like a deer in the headlights against SA in Wellington when the pack was on the back foot.
Beauden on the other hand has absolutely carved teams to shreds at 10 on many occasions. He is also a much better defender and has far more experience in the big games when the heat is on.
I really hope Mo'unga steps up tomorrow, because he'll have to based on past performances starting.
Has he though?
Barrett’s running game is what has been a standout. His try scoring record is excellent. But I don’t think he is a natural playmaker and agree with @DMX that he hasn’t been able to unleash the attack. IMO he is far more dangerous when he is being used with space. I love it when he plays fullback for that very reason.
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:Basing on the fact that since Lions series BB struggled to get backline moving and struggles with consistent tactical kicking. Mounga looks to be more naturally suited to the 10 jersey based on the form he has shown in Super Rugby and I and the selectors believe that he can replicate it going forward. I think BB carves up way more effectively from the back and always has imho.
My issue is Mo'unga's lack of experience at test level. A lot of players carve up Super rugby but struggle at the next level up. So far in his career he's looked great when his forwards are bitch slapping the opposition pack all over the park (nearly every Crusaders game, Bled 2) but has struggled when his forwards are on the back foot (Crusaders vs Lions, Wellington SA test).
He has a huge future but RWC's are not for the faint of heart, I don't really think he has enough runs on the board at this stage of his career. I think if he shits the bed against SA we'll revert to Beauden at 10 and BFA at 15, so this is a good opportunity to test him without too much on the line.
@ACT-Crusader I do agree that Beauden is awesome at 15 with the extra space, in fact I think that position suits him better. But I'm worried about having a rookie at 10.
I also think people forget that some of our comfortable wins over the last 4 years have actually been tight tests that Beauden has broken open by creating or scoring crucial tries that have broken the back of the opposition.
Edit - just to be clear, I really do want him to go well as the dual pivots gives us attacking options all over the park which would be an absolute nightmare to defend against.
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@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
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@Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
I don’t really see Ardie and Cane as two opensides per se because their games are quite different. I’m more worried about the combination and that being relatively new.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@No-Quarter all good. I think he’ll be fine. I think all of us can appreciate what you are saying. I’m sure we all have a player (or players) that when we see their name on the team sheet we get worried about ‘being exposed’, ‘not up to’, ‘lacking experience’, ‘what’s he done lately’, ‘remember X test’ etc.
I hear you. I'm much less concerned about the backs against SA than I am about the forwards dominating.
The two opensides thing is still quite new for us
I don’t really see Ardie and Cane as two opensides per se because their games are quite different. I’m more worried about the combination and that being relatively new.
Yeah same but different to what I mean.
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I'm sure we will see different tactics from the ABs than what they used in Wellington. The same will apply for the Boks too, but probably to a lesser degree.
It was interesting that both Hansen and BFA mentioned on more than one occasion in the pressers that the SA wingers like to "roll the dice" on defence by rushing up to prevent the ball getting wide. These comments will be designed to put some doubt into their minds. An obvious counter to this is to kick into the space behind them for Reece and Bridge.
All the good performances by the ABs against SA have started with getting some dominance up front first - Rugby 101. That doesn't just mean the scrum and lineout, but also strong carries and accurate cleans, and dominant tackles on defence. If the AB forwards can provide the platform then A Smith and Mo'unga will have more time and space to ignite the backs. And just as importantly, discipline.
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@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:SA wingers like to "roll the dice" on defence by rushing up to prevent the ball getting wide.
always been a tactic of SA teams, especially in that period when Jean De Villiers played, maybe Rassie is trying to bring intercepting back.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:SA wingers like to "roll the dice" on defence by rushing up to prevent the ball getting wide.
always been a tactic of SA teams, especially in that period when Jean De Villiers played, maybe Rassie is trying to bring intercepting back.
Habana also.
I think the difference here and what I’ve noticed is they diagonal in rather than the way Habana would keep to his space and then pounce.
I remember when the ABs played the Wallabies a few years back Melbourne and Deans was coaching OZ and Henry selected Mauger at 12 and Lucky Luke at 13. Deans held a presser and after saying it was a surprising selection he pointed out that Luke likes to lead in one side when defending leaving the outside exposed. And sure enough the Wallabies exploited it during the match.
Sometimes it’s mind games and sometimes it’s actually real based on hours of video watching.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:I remember when the ABs played the Wallabies a few years back Melbourne and Deans was coaching OZ and Henry selected Mauger at 12 and Lucky Luke at 13. Deans held a presser and after saying it was a surprising selection he pointed out that Luke likes to lead in one side when defending leaving the outside exposed. And sure enough the Wallabies exploited it during the match.
Having a tough time figuring out when this press conference happened because McAlister only moved to 13 that test late after MacDonald predictably was injured on the Friday....
... and Deans wasn't Wallaby coach for another 6 months.
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@rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:I remember when the ABs played the Wallabies a few years back Melbourne and Deans was coaching OZ and Henry selected Mauger at 12 and Lucky Luke at 13. Deans held a presser and after saying it was a surprising selection he pointed out that Luke likes to lead in one side when defending leaving the outside exposed. And sure enough the Wallabies exploited it during the match.
Having a tough time figuring out when this press conference happened because McAlister only moved to 13 that test late after MacDonald predictably was injured on the Friday....
... and Deans wasn't Wallaby coach for another 6 months.
Sorry it was Connolly not Deans.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool
:Sorry it was Connolly not Deans.
I don't doubt Deans was making his way around the country chipping away at Ted and co at the time though, which could be the cause of confusion.
Fair call though, like it was one that was flagged by many at the time as being a bit of a worry - much like Kaino at lock.
