All Blacks vs Tonga
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START THE PARADE IN NUKU 'ALOFA! TONGA SCORE!!!!
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
I disagree with Marshall. For me, that's still a penalty and possibly yellow card - the precedent was that bloke who slipped while taking off a year or two back and still copped it. I think the Tongans were right.
Not a red, but I don't think it was a scrum either for that matter
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
I think it’ll be good for Josh Ioane to serve his apprenticeship for just a little bit longer. His time in the black jersey will certainly come though.
He’s nowhere near ready for a RWC knock out game
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
Disagree - if not a card it's a clear penalty.
You've changed your tune - in the Tongan one the Tongan player lead with a shoulder, all his fault, in this one JB tripped over another player.
I haven't changed my tune at all and all you've done is offer a biased description of both incidents.
If you read what I actually wrote I said both are penalties.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
Disagree - if not a card it's a clear penalty.
You've changed your tune - in the Tongan one the Tongan player lead with a shoulder, all his fault, in this one JB tripped over another player.
I haven't changed my tune at all and all you've done is offer a biased description of both incidents.
If you read what I actually wrote I said both are penalties.
What should JB be penalised for?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
Disagree - if not a card it's a clear penalty.
You've changed your tune - in the Tongan one the Tongan player lead with a shoulder, all his fault, in this one JB tripped over another player.
I haven't changed my tune at all and all you've done is offer a biased description of both incidents.
If you read what I actually wrote I said both are penalties.
What should JB be penalised for?
Being a doofus ?
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Well we held our shape for longer than expected given how poor the Tongans have been. Seemed to take out foot off the peddle with the Lousi YC, and then obviously giving Crotty his marching orders.
Not really sure what we can take out of this game other than a bit of a hit out between Bled 2 and the SA game.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
Disagree - if not a card it's a clear penalty.
You've changed your tune - in the Tongan one the Tongan player lead with a shoulder, all his fault, in this one JB tripped over another player.
I haven't changed my tune at all and all you've done is offer a biased description of both incidents.
If you read what I actually wrote I said both are penalties.
What should JB be penalised for?
Taking a player out in the air. The fact I need to point that out suggests you should be telling me less about the laws and what the outcome should've been.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
Taking a player out in the air.
from the IRB
looks to be a penalty - but I think they got the YC/RC call right (assuming it's not strict liability)
Challenging players in the air - Law 10.4(i)
Play on – Fair challenge with both players in a realistic position to catch the ball. Even if the player(s) land(s) dangerously, play onPenalty only – Fair challenge with wrong timing - No pulling down
Yellow card – Not a fair challenge, there is no contest and the player is pulled down landing on his back or side
Red card – It’s not a fair challenge with no contest, whilst being a reckless or deliberate foul play action and the player lands in a dangerous position -
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
I disagree with Marshall. For me, that's still a penalty and possibly yellow card - the precedent was that bloke who slipped while taking off a year or two back and still copped it. I think the Tongans were right.
Not a red, but I don't think it was a scrum either for that matter
That one was either scrum Tonga or red card Jordie Barrett. Laws of the rugby don't give you any grey area. As soon as Jordie commits a foul, it all comes down to how the player lands.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp Gardner explicitly said that Jordie was in a realistic position to catch the ball (timing was right) when he tripped over Reece. Gardner made the right call. Play on.
This
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
I disagree with Marshall. For me, that's still a penalty and possibly yellow card - the precedent was that bloke who slipped while taking off a year or two back and still copped it. I think the Tongans were right.
Not a red, but I don't think it was a scrum either for that matter
Why reconfirm stupid precedents? (I don't know what incident you're talking about off the top of my head though).
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
Disagree - if not a card it's a clear penalty.
You've changed your tune - in the Tongan one the Tongan player lead with a shoulder, all his fault, in this one JB tripped over another player.
I haven't changed my tune at all and all you've done is offer a biased description of both incidents.
If you read what I actually wrote I said both are penalties.
What should JB be penalised for?
Taking a player out in the air. The fact I need to point that out suggests you should be telling me less about the laws and what the outcome should've been.
JB didn't tackle, push, pull or grasp the player in the air, he fell into him with no intention due to an accident.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
That's not a YC ffs
I think it probably is from the end on shot - but for the game he should have sent two ABs off as well.
Terrible call -- he was pulling out and put a hand out to soften the impact. Just in no way a yellow.
Referees are going to cost some teams at this cup, and it's going to suck.
He hit him with the shoulder even while pulling out. I don't disagree that refs will cost teams but by the letter of the law it's yellow.
Probably - I'd argue little force and pulling out - but to me shows how refs don't seem to have 'feel' for the game any more. I don't think that's the sort of tackle that was intended to be carded, no matter how the laws are written.
I think Gardner does and this decision just now shows that.
I disagree with Marshall. For me, that's still a penalty and possibly yellow card - the precedent was that bloke who slipped while taking off a year or two back and still copped it. I think the Tongans were right.
Not a red, but I don't think it was a scrum either for that matter
A previous injustice shouldn’t be used as a precedent.
This is a similar, but more obvious, situation to the way the judiciary ruled out the ref card to the french guy who took out BB a season or two back. JB falling over is a huge mitigating factor. So much so that it was viewed the same as if a Tongan player had taken him out. Ie completely accidental. -
This could be likened to the situation to where a guy sets himself for a tackle only for the ball carrier to duck at the last moment and high contact is made. Referees still give cards for that even though there was not much the tackler could do about things.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks vs Tonga:
A previous injustice shouldn’t be used as a precedent.
OK, I looked up the Fall incident on Beaudy, and I now don't understnad the laws any more.
Every time I see that, I see a red card - but if you slip or trip it appears it's play on. Bummer if you happen to be in the air.
So, based on that - Fall shouldn't have copped a Red, and Gardner got it right today as well, and I'm confused.
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Anton Lienert-Brown and Ryan Crotty look to be an excellent combination (not at all unexpected) emerging at the most unfortunate time. As I write I'm reminded they are underpinned upstream by the talented Sonny Bill who also suffers injury week after week.
Ardie matures a little in every game he plays - he's got a fine appetite for continuous hard work.
Tonga? Bone idle, plain bloody lazy, full of bluff and bluster about national pride backed up by zero effort. They ought to be asked to come back some time down the track, to seek re-admission when they are fair dinkum about taking the field together.
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