AB RWC squad
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@canefan said in AB RWC squad:
@Stargazer said in AB RWC squad:
@canefan Do we pin our RWC hopes on one player? There are 23 players in a match day squad.
10 is no ordinary position. If Richie and BB go down would you prefer Ioane or one of the existing squad members in at 10?
Ioane over non 10s, especially over JB.
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Had an interesting conversation with former All Black prop Kees Meeuws who was doing coms for Sky at the Taniwha v Magpies game..
He made some very good points about the props that were selected , he believes the All Black coaches have erred not selecting Owen Franks..he still rates Franks a much better out and out scrummager on the tight head side than either Angus Taavao or Ofa Tuangafasi , that I agree with ..
Remember the other 2 props Moody and Moli are loose head props..
He made a very good point ,you don’t have to start Franks ,but imagine the impact he would bring to a scrum in the last 20 minutes, but his real concern is ,if Laulala went down with an injury ,would you be comfortable with what they have in the squad.?.like Meeuws ,I am not so sure ..
Can understand the need for workrate ball carriers etc..!,but you have still have to set a platform first.
Meeuws is still living down in Dunedin..nicer place to visit in the summer I reckon. -
@Steven-Harris said in AB RWC squad:
but imagine the impact he would bring to a scrum in the last 20 minutes
That's the problem though isn't it? The scrum is the only impact he has and at a time when we are probably trying to lift the tempo and run sides off their feet.
@Steven-Harris said in AB RWC squad:
if Laulala went down with an injury ,would you be comfortable with what they have in the squad.?
If that happens Owen will be on a plane surely.
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@canefan said in AB RWC squad:
@chimoaus we started the 4th 10 in 2011 didn't we? There are no guarantees, and replacements are either 12 hours away in a similar time zone, or hiding out somewhere in Tokyo or Yokohama for the duration of the tourney
3rd 10: Cruden.
4th was Beaver who came off the bench. -
@Snowy I guess we often only think about the ball running as having an impact on tiring defences, but scrumming against tiring opposition would have an impact too.
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@booboo Weepu had some time at 10 too, so you could say Beaver was 5th...
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@taniwharugby said in AB RWC squad:
@Snowy I guess we often only think about the ball running as having an impact on tiring defences, but scrumming against tiring opposition would have an impact too.
For sure, but I guess the selectors think that we might get both.
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@taniwharugby said in AB RWC squad:
@booboo Weepu had some time at 10 too, so you could say Beaver was 5th...
That argument crossed my mind actually...
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@booboo said in AB RWC squad:
@taniwharugby said in AB RWC squad:
@booboo Weepu had some time at 10 too, so you could say Beaver was 5th...
That argument crossed my mind actually...
Neither Cruden or Beaver were in the original squad IIRC? How many 10s did we have in the original squad? DC, Slade.....?
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@Snowy I guess the the coaches have access to a bit more data and information than us as mere viewers...where we just see Frank's doing little other than leaning on scrums and making passive tackles and carries.
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@taniwharugby Yep.
He is standing up for himself:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12263666
The injury probably had a larger affect than was obvious.
He's been a great AB though and I'm sure he'd come to the rescue at RWC if asked.
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@Snowy said in AB RWC squad:
@Steven-Harris said in AB RWC squad:
but imagine the impact he would bring to a scrum in the last 20 minutes
That's the problem though isn't it? The scrum is the only impact he has and at a time when we are probably trying to lift the tempo and run sides off their feet.
And if we are honest, Franks is penalised at the scrum just as often as he wins a penalty now. I can't remember too many scrums like vs Aust in Bled II. Maybe Big Karl's first scrum vs France?
The selectors will have prioritised what the job description is for their props based on their gameplan and have picked accordingly.
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I think there are risks in most squad selections ,
Some have picked 2 halfbacks , equally as risky ,
With whats available I understand them rolling the dice on the 2 10s , as ugly as it might be , i reckon we might see Jordie play some 10 in the pool games
im fine with the gamble they have elected to take ,
if we win the world cup , nothing will get said, if we lose a 10 and it goes disasterly , people will say told ya so .
thats how it usually goes with the coaches decisions
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@Steven-Harris said in AB RWC squad:
Had an interesting conversation with former All Black prop Kees Meeuws who was doing coms for Sky at the Taniwha v Magpies game..
He made some very good points about the props that were selected , he believes the All Black coaches have erred not selecting Owen Franks..he still rates Franks a much better out and out scrummager on the tight head side than either Angus Taavao or Ofa Tuangafasi , that I agree with ..
Remember the other 2 props Moody and Moli are loose head props..
He made a very good point ,you don’t have to start Franks ,but imagine the impact he would bring to a scrum in the last 20 minutes, but his real concern is ,if Laulala went down with an injury ,would you be comfortable with what they have in the squad.?.like Meeuws ,I am not so sure ..
Can understand the need for workrate ball carriers etc..!,but you have still have to set a platform first.
Meeuws is still living down in Dunedin..nicer place to visit in the summer I reckon.Wow a former prop talking up the importance of scrummaging 😀
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@Steven-Harris I'll be significantly more worried if Joe Moody goes down and we've got Ofa starting at loosehead with Atu Moli on the bench.
I'm a bit concerned that this RWC has come at a poor time in the cycle for us - a year too late for the old guard and a year too soon for the rookies.
Hansen has currently got an interesting juggling act melding form with experience, though I'm hoping that many of the old guard are simply, "timing their runs".
I've certainly got way more question marks than I had in 2015.
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@Chris-B, I have doubts myself over both Tuangafasi and Taavao as top class scrummagers ..
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I think that's simply because we just aren't as good (overall or relative to key competitors) as we were in 2015.
If Karl T were fit, I'd be feeling a lot happier, as he can hold his own at LH, and would allow Ofa to go back to TH where (IMO) he is much better. Ofa could still be the 5th prop, but also the reserve starting TH. We'd then be able to carry Ta'avao and Karl on the bench and be (IMO) a bit stronger for scrummaging on the bench. We could also use Moli as the fifth and he could cover both too.
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@gt12 Yeah - exactly right, I think.
When the Lions were here in 2017, I was very confident we would beat them (even though we didn't), where now I've got doubts about beating individual Home nations.
Next year, when we might have had time to bed in our various new players a bit more, we might be stronger again - this year seems like we might fall between two stools - form and experience.
We can still win, just not as likely as if we were at our peak in the "cycle".
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The only thing those new props are missing is experience. But of course, the problem is that most props "meet their Waterloo" (get outplayed by a grizzly veteran) at some stage. The danger is it could be in a knock out game where just one scrum can change the whole game. Would have though having Franks on the bench would have been a kind of insurance at the business end of the tournament....
But the wise men have determined it will be a fast, mobile type of game in Japan despite world cup history telling us differently. I hope they are right.
